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TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

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Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#41

Post by Grazester »

0xTJ wrote: post #28

Not shocking they seem to have pretty low professional standards. I recently had a friend travelling from the US back to Canada get suddenly thoroughly frisked without warning after the scanners showed some object near her thighs. She didn't have anything but clothes on her body on below the waist. The TSA agent spent time groping around, convinced there was something, then after there couldn't possibly have been an…

It has been my experience that they would call a female agent when they needed to pat down another female. Has this changed?

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#42

Post by carefree-bob »

mikestew wrote: post #31
j_walter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? They find hundreds of guns in carry on baggage every year, but that should be no big deal right? They didn't force this person through the scanner, they could have asked for a supervisor and discussed the situation. Don't trust the people at the bottom of any organization if you have a concern.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? No one suggested that. What do you think we did 30 years ago (look it up if you have to)? That, and locked cockpit doors: what value-add is TSA over procedures from 30 years ago?

It would be nice if there were evidence based requirements for new security features and rollback if subsequent data showed them to be ineffictive.

There is a lot of security theater happening at airports.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#43

Post by formerly_proven »

MBCook wrote: post #13

I’ve been in a film photography sub on Reddit lately and the TSA comes up frequently. They can’t even follow their own rules on film, telling people it has to be scanned (it doesn’t), scanning is safe up 3800 ISO (that’s not a speed), etc. I’m not surprised they can’t get something important right. What if someone had to fly for necessary medical treatment? What if the device had been something even more important, l…

> What if someone had to fly for necessary medical treatment?

E.g. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/02/disabled-can...

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#44

Post by kube-system »

mikestew wrote: post #31
j_walter wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? They find hundreds of guns in carry on baggage every year, but that should be no big deal right? They didn't force this person through the scanner, they could have asked for a supervisor and discussed the situation. Don't trust the people at the bottom of any organization if you have a concern.

So just get rid of TSA and have no security? No one suggested that. What do you think we did 30 years ago (look it up if you have to)? That, and locked cockpit doors: what value-add is TSA over procedures from 30 years ago?

Airlines could have locked cockpit doors and prohibited passengers from bringing box cutters on their airplanes 30 years ago, but they didn't, even though hijackings regularly happened.

When there is no coordination between airlines, none of them wants to be the one who implements tough security and pisses off their customer base.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#45

Post by toomuchtodo »

Buttons840 wrote: post #23
QuercusMax wrote: post #4

Like other post-9/11 things like DHS and ICE, we need to abolish TSA since it doesn't actually keep anyone safe, and actively harms people.

You say abolish TSA. That's a "how"; let me ask you about outcomes to better understand. Are you suggesting that the level of security at airports be reduced? Are you suggesting that people and object that get onto planes be given less scrutiny?

Reinforced flight deck doors are sufficient. See: the rest of the world. TSA is a jobs program and to soothe the irrational and those poor at risk management.

At $10 Billion A Year, TSA Still Fails 90% Of The Time—And Covers It Up - https://viewfromthewing.com/at-10-billion-a-year-tsa-still-f... - January 27th, 2025

TSA Admits New Machines Are Slowing Security To A Crawl—And Says Screening Won’t Improve Until 2040 - https://viewfromthewing.com/tsa-admits-new-machines-are-slow... - August 10th, 2024

> But TSA itself has filed in court documents that they’ve been unaware of actual threats to aviation that they’re guarding against, and they haven’t stopped any actual terrorists (nor with past failure rates at detecting threats were they deterring any, either).

Accidentally Revealed Document Shows TSA Doesn't Think Terrorists Are Plotting To Attack Airplanes - https://www.techdirt.com/2013/10/21/accidentally-revealed-do... - October 21st, 2013

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#46

Post by mindslight »

chaps wrote: post #30

I'm one of those weirdos who opts out of the scanners because I'd rather avoid having people casually look inside of my body. Last time I flew out of Laguardia I opted out and while I was being patted down another TSA agent about twenty feet away kept making kissy faces at me. Very much felt like intimidation. What a time..

Talk about l'esprit d'escalier. I'd like to think I would have held eye contact and pointed at my own crotch.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#47

Post by nostrademons »

Buttons840 wrote: post #23
QuercusMax wrote: post #4

Like other post-9/11 things like DHS and ICE, we need to abolish TSA since it doesn't actually keep anyone safe, and actively harms people.

You say abolish TSA. That's a "how"; let me ask you about outcomes to better understand. Are you suggesting that the level of security at airports be reduced? Are you suggesting that people and object that get onto planes be given less scrutiny?

TSA was never necessary, it was all theater to begin with. The median number of terrorism deaths per year in the U.S. for all years between 1970-2017 was 4 [1]. You have always been about 10x more likely to die from being struck by lightning than by being killed by a terrorist.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States....

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#48

Post by 0xTJ »

Grazester wrote: post #41
0xTJ wrote: post #28

Not shocking they seem to have pretty low professional standards. I recently had a friend travelling from the US back to Canada get suddenly thoroughly frisked without warning after the scanners showed some object near her thighs. She didn't have anything but clothes on her body on below the waist. The TSA agent spent time groping around, convinced there was something, then after there couldn't possibly have been an…

It has been my experience that they would call a female agent when they needed to pat down another female. Has this changed?

It was a female agent, that doesn't mean that it's okay to start groping someone without warning.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#49

Post by anonymousab »

MostlyStable wrote: post #21
RHSeeger wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do know there was airport security before the TSA took over, right?

While I agree that TSA should be done away with, I'm afraid that it wouldn't actually change what airport security looks like in most places. At this point, since people have gotten used to it, my guess is that if Airports took over their own security again (or went back to however it worked pre-TSA), they would maintain about the same standards and procedures in an effort to avoid blame in the case that something ha…

Blame/lawsuit avoidance is a powerful motivation to keep things the same. But there's also a very strong drive to reduce costs, and this would be a very enticing cost center, for better or worse.

Hard to say how things would play out.

Re: TSA leaves passenger needing surgery after illegally forcing her through scanner

#50

Post by ssl-3 »

SunshineTheCat wrote: post #26
MBCook wrote: post #13

I’ve been in a film photography sub on Reddit lately and the TSA comes up frequently. They can’t even follow their own rules on film, telling people it has to be scanned (it doesn’t), scanning is safe up 3800 ISO (that’s not a speed), etc. I’m not surprised they can’t get something important right. What if someone had to fly for necessary medical treatment? What if the device had been something even more important, l…

Yea I once had a TSA individual take my 85mm f1.2 RF series Canon lens out of its case and hold it up to the light to "inspect it." I said, "can you please be careful with that? It's a $3,000 lens..." The person cut me off and flatly stated: "Excuse me sir, I know what I'm doing..." The great thing is that if the person had dropped it, they would've faced zero consequences and I would be out a lens which was central…

I don't intend for this to sound like an excuse. I don't fly often, and almost never with anything expensive.

But I am curious:

Can objects like expensive precision optics be insured against damage from the TSA? Is that a thing that regular people can easily find coverage for?

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