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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#41

Post by bz_bz_bz »

_ea1k wrote: post #11

Is this shocking? Obviously including PHEVs helps a bit, but even outside of this it is exactly what should be happening. Their biggest sellers are SUVs, and at these price points, the EVs can be substantially than their ICE counterparts. For 2026, they probably won't even need the PHEVs to get there, since the Cayenne EV is the best EV that they've built so far.

Given that they walked back many of their BEV goals in mid-to-late 2025, some may find this surprising. The K1 was supposed to be all electric vehicle when it was announced, and they are now going to release it as a gas & PHEV first instead.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#42

Post by andyferris »

appplication wrote: post #30
sdwr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling the most cars will eventually translate into making the best cars, with the compounding experience and network effects.

> Selling the most x will eventually translate into making the best x It’s a theory for sure, but I don’t think that’s a common strategy for modern capitalism.

What about for socialism with Chinese charateristics?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#43

Post by appplication »

ericd wrote: post #32
appplication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

The issue is not actual quality, it’s perceived quality. Chinese companies will fight decades of history and negative perception to reach top of the market consumers, a segment obsessed with perception.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#44

Post by coredev_ »

ericd wrote: post #32
appplication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

From what I've heard, the quality is pretty good. The problem is when something breaks, you can be waiting for (sometimes very expensive) parts for months while not being able to use your car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#45

Post by idiot900 »

appplication wrote: post #10
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

This was once said about Japanese cars. I don’t want a Chinese car now, but I probably will not too long from now.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#46

Post by 9JollyOtter »

ggm wrote: post #12

I think a lot of people are missing a point here. Cars are not (just) use-values. They are expression of desire. They are, for some brands, classic Veblen Goods. Porche possibly could sell more by putting the price up They put their marque behind EV and Hybrid. It worked. Their brand sold well. This is in contradistinction to vendors who won't think about this market niche in positives, but are being dragged into it.

This is true for quite a number of brands of vehicles. Also I don't understand what a modern Porsche is. Porsche to me was always a Rear Engined, (normally) RWD sports car i.e. the 911. I am personally on the look for a 944 (believe it or not they are cheaper than JDM cars of a similar vintage).

When I see a Porsche SUV, to me that isn't a Porsche. It looks like any other SUV on the road with Porsche badge on it. It akin to someone putting a Apple Sticker over Dell Logo on their laptop.

The same happens when you see a Bentley or Rolls Royce SUV.

> They put their marque behind EV and Hybrid. It worked. Their brand sold well.

They are losing money. Sales are down and they are planning to move back to ICE and are postponing or cancelling EV projects.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/porsche-loses-1-1-billion-220...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#47

Post by kulahan »

qiqitori wrote: post #18
sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists)

1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel

2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.)

3. Automatic parking when parallel parking

4. “Reverse actions” feature, where you press a button after very carefully getting into a spot, and the car replays it in reverse to get you out of said spot

5. Lots of remote features tied to an app. The ability to look through cameras, auto-record videos when people get close, lock and unlock and view status of the car. Remote tracking via GPS in case it’s stolen.

6. Turn on your turn signal, your dash changes to a live video feed of that side of the car

7. Chairs with heating and cooling, massaging, and auto-inertia-damping features

8. Bluetooth and Apple CarPlay plus Android auto

9. Road-scanning cameras which adjust suspension live based on upcoming road conditions

10. Crash preparation features like Benz’s Pink Noise or auto-recording a minute of video to assist with crash investigations

There are probably may I’m forgetting.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#48

Post by tharkun__ »

coredev_ wrote: post #44
ericd wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think this is accurate, Chinese firms are increasingly moving up the quality chain. You might want to look at some of the reviews of Xiaomi’s recently launched car. Also, Tesla Shanghai is one of their best factories, much better quality scores than Fremont iirc. Having a totally local, integrated supply chain pays dividends in a lot of ways, as does leading in production volume. Tim Cook also gave that inter…

From what I've heard, the quality is pretty good. The problem is when something breaks, you can be waiting for (sometimes very expensive) parts for months while not being able to use your car.

You're speaking of Tesla here, correct?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#49

Post by Ylpertnodi »

rr808 wrote: post #14
dzonga wrote: post #9

a lot of these luxury brands have been eating off china the past few years but now they've lost their luster since china makes cars better than most luxury brands and china has a moat in EVs so what's left is either the US or emerging markets

> china makes cars better than most luxury brands More like China makes cheaper cars which is enough for most people.

Watching my very, very MAGA 'friends' purchasing byd's is hilarious. I've also, of late, noticed fewer and fewer Teslas around.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#50

Post by jadenpeterson »

skhameneh wrote: post #39
jadenpeterson wrote: post #22

[flagged]

This does read/interpret a bit odd, because the Hummer H2 doesn’t strike me as a reliable vehicle and I’ve generally heard of them to be cost sinks (completely disregarding the horrible efficiency). Why not start off looking at the cheapest EV or PHEV that you can find without high mileage that’ll fit your daily driving habits, then give it a test drive? Consider how much monthly expenses will cost (might save ~90% o…

Yeah it's not the... best. I bought it kind of on a lark, and the sunk cost made me reluctant to let go it.

Any brand recommendations? I'm really not one for 'smart' features, though I know they're kind of intrinsic to electric vehicles.

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