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Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

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Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#41

Post by salawat »

drcongo wrote: post #36
linschn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Roosevelt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America... - van buren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Cass - Wilson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans - Bush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp And i must forget a lot of others, but I think you get the gist. "Great again" indeed.

Out of curiosity, do you know if these events get taught in history lessons in American schools? I'm by no means throwing shade here - I'm a Brit and our history lessons barely mentioned the unending list of atrocities Britain committed in the name of empire.

Yepper. Trail of Tears, German/Japanese internment are all primary education topics. Now interestingly, I don't think Bush has made it into the history books yet, but I don't have kids, so can't verify current day education materials.

What I find interesting is the bits we leave out. Like we touch on the Banana Republics, but the annex of Hawaii and how that was skulduggerously done is completely skimmed over.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#43

Post by trymas »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #12

This is how people lose credibility. The articles wants to make you think the box is a 3d confinement reminiscent of the drawing. From the description it sounds like it is a 4 square foot cage that the person stands in while cuffed. Yes it’s bad. No, it’s not like the box mentioned at the CIA Black site.

Draw 2x2ft square on the ground and see how could you stand there, sit down, sleep, stretch your legs/arms. Imagine doing that for 24h.

I haven’t drawn this, but I think taller adult would always be touching at least two walls unless standing diagonally.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#44

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

cr125rider wrote: post #33
DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never claimed it was a democracy, either today or in the past. I actually said the opposite.

Is this a “technically it’s a presidential republic” sort of thing?

All republics are democracies. Not all democracies are republics. Some people seem to get confused about this and think that "democracy" means "direct democracy" only, and not any of the various sorts of indirect democracy.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#45

Post by IAmBroom »

shevy-java wrote: post #6

This kind of seems to be a combined strategy. I mean this is not old; many of us may still remember Abu Ghraib and so forth. We now have a somewhat comparable situation: build up of enemies. See ICE raids and videos manhunting people. There always are people susceptible to do so (e. g. inflict pain onto others). The strange thing is how some "democracies" do that. Where is the net difference to a dictatorship? This i…

> The article claims that the torture box ("confinement box") is the worst torture, but some 20 years ago we had the same with waterboarding.

I read an account of a fifteenth-century woman (IIRC) who had essentially been waterboarded, among other tortures. She testified that the waterboarding was by far the worst thing she endured, and would rather die than experience it again.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#46

Post by IAmBroom »

Xmd5a wrote: post #37
shevy-java wrote: post #6

This kind of seems to be a combined strategy. I mean this is not old; many of us may still remember Abu Ghraib and so forth. We now have a somewhat comparable situation: build up of enemies. See ICE raids and videos manhunting people. There always are people susceptible to do so (e. g. inflict pain onto others). The strange thing is how some "democracies" do that. Where is the net difference to a dictatorship? This i…

Waterboarders follow a mind-breaking formation in a dedicated military base where they are desensitized to torture by subjugating themselves to it first! Anyway I don't like the article's take. It seems to blame this on an institutional drift into sadism. I don't think it's the full story, there must be a strategy behind it. Inducing trauma so that migrants don't ever think about coming back? Maybe coupled with Palan…

Your last quote clearly says it is.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#47

Post by phantasmish »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #44
cr125rider wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a “technically it’s a presidential republic” sort of thing?

All republics are democracies. Not all democracies are republics. Some people seem to get confused about this and think that "democracy" means "direct democracy" only, and not any of the various sorts of indirect democracy.

To make this point crystal clear, “correcting” someone with “ackshually the US isn’t a democracy” is something poli sci departments break their freshmen of every single year.

The colloquial, broad sense of “democracy” is also how political scientists employ the term in most contexts. That is: the people who study this for a living are entirely OK with that usage. If they didn’t use that sense of the word they’d need another one to mean the same thing, because it’s very useful.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#48

Post by phantasmish »

drcongo wrote: post #36
linschn wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Roosevelt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America... - van buren https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Cass - Wilson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_German_Americans - Bush https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp And i must forget a lot of others, but I think you get the gist. "Great again" indeed.

Out of curiosity, do you know if these events get taught in history lessons in American schools? I'm by no means throwing shade here - I'm a Brit and our history lessons barely mentioned the unending list of atrocities Britain committed in the name of empire.

A bit, but it varies some by state and most skip at least some things (do any cover labor struggles in the early 20th century?)

Ours stopped after (an extremely cursory coverage of) the ‘50s and ‘60 civil rights movement because there was no way to cover Vietnam and Nixon and such basically at all without greatly upsetting Republican parents. Anything newer than ~30 years (at the time) was treated as about as handsome-off as religion. Dunno if that’s changed.

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#49

Post by verzali »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #44
cr125rider wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a “technically it’s a presidential republic” sort of thing?

All republics are democracies. Not all democracies are republics. Some people seem to get confused about this and think that "democracy" means "direct democracy" only, and not any of the various sorts of indirect democracy.

Even the Democratic People's Republic of Korea?

Re: Torture Techniques from CIA Black Sites Were Used at Alligator Alcatraz

#50

Post by Traubenfuchs »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #8
Traubenfuchs wrote: post #3

>45% of voters would vote for Trump again, today.

What does the orange-utan has to do with this ? The free rein of the CIA and associated atrocities have been the same under every US president.

> What does the orange-utan has to do with this ?

Alligator Alcatraz is a Trump original.

> The free rein of the CIA and associated atrocities have been the same under every US president.

You are absolutely right, but not always is this kind of stuff that directly supported by the president.

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