Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

kanadojo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 94 posts

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#41

Post by wodenokoto »

jaredklewis wrote: post #37
wodenokoto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ajatt is absolutely ridiculous and I never understood how it rose to prominence online. His result to efforts ratio listed back in the days was terrible and reading through is blog - back when it was a blog - was impossible. Everything read like an informercial and never got to the point. Last time I checked it was a book club. Didn’t bother to check this time.

What's ridiculous about it? Long before AJATT was a site, I think most people would've told you that immersion is a good way to learn a second language. You mention "result to efforts ratio," but I'm not sure I understand what this could me. In language learning, "results" and "efforts" are more or less the same thing. If you read a lot of books, you'll be good at reading books. It's not like there's some reading tha…

First time I went to ajatt it basically said “with only 18 hours of study a day you too can be fluent in Japanese in two years”

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#42

Post by bschwindHN »

I'm not sure what you're using for the UI exactly, but on a typical app or web page in iOS, I can tap the top "status bar" on my phone (where the clock and battery/wifi indicators are) and it should scroll me to the top of whatever view I'm in. It doesn't seem to work on your app though. I tried using it after scrolling through a long list of kanji when I wanted to return to the top.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#43

Post by famahar »

It looks good, but it doesn't seem like a learning app and more like a practice app with just a big list of words. I was presented with multiple choices for things I wasn't taught. Closed sourced apps have a curriculum and guided learning steps. The cost is justified through original learning material integrated into studying and practice. I commend your effort and look forward to updates.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#45

Post by jaredklewis »

wodenokoto wrote: post #41
jaredklewis wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ridiculous about it? Long before AJATT was a site, I think most people would've told you that immersion is a good way to learn a second language. You mention "result to efforts ratio," but I'm not sure I understand what this could me. In language learning, "results" and "efforts" are more or less the same thing. If you read a lot of books, you'll be good at reading books. It's not like there's some reading tha…

First time I went to ajatt it basically said “with only 18 hours of study a day you too can be fluent in Japanese in two years”

From what I remember, the site mostly recommended immersion supplemented by studying methods like spaced repetition, so if that’s like 16 hours of immersion and a couple hours of “study” I think that probably seems about right? Though maybe sleep a bit more.

When I lived in Tokyo I met lots of immigrants that came over with little or no knowledge of Japanese and if they were working in ordinary jobs like in a restaurant or convenience store, they would usually be conversational in a couple months and verbally fluent in a half year. The ones that studied were usually ready to take the N1 after a few years.

People that struggled were usually in jobs like English teaching or programming where most of their day was not in Japanese.

And like I said above, if you want to learn Japanese, the whole point is to use it, so using Japanese for most of the day doesn’t necessarily seem like a burden.

Obviously it’s not for everyone, but that’s true of everything.

Do you think there is another, faster way to fluency?

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#46

Post by linehedonist »

nodja wrote: post #29
linehedonist wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And maybe talk to people in Japanese? And do some writing? Not just passive consumption.

This is actually NOT recommended for a beginner. Writing and speaking are effective at establishing long term memories, it's why we do it for other things, but a language learning beginner has no idea if what they're writing makes sense or if there's any subtle mistakes in how they're pronouncing words or how they're putting them together, etc. Language learning experts don't recommend you start speaking/writing unle…

Every language course I’ve taken has involved has some active production of language. Day 1 of my Japanese class in HS was introducing ourselves to one another. Language exams also require proof of correct and accurate production of language.

Do you have any citations for the idea that it’s better not to practice actually using the language while trying to learn it?

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#47

Post by kiyo521 »

Specific piece of feedback I have is the font is a bit hard to read (as someone who reads Japanese) and not representative of the forms you will most often see, as a beginner. Basic font is best, a beginner won’t know stylized rounded edges from the actual form.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#48

Post by weird-eye-issue »

refactor_master wrote: post #32
gyomu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “culture” around learning Japanese is so different from other languages. There’s a large amount of software engineers studying the language, so there’s tons of apps/websites that center around it (for better or worse). The communities are also… particular. People tend to espouse certain deep beliefs or attitudes that you just don’t see for other languages (and I don’t think complexity is the reason; you don’t see…

Funny thing is, these communities aren’t readily visible in real life. At the Japanese language school I attend people are mostly regular people with regular lives and regular limitations. Online, you’d believe that everybody did Wanikani on Adderall for several hours a day.

I think this observation also applies to almost everything else too

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#49

Post by rootsudo »

refactor_master wrote: post #32
gyomu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “culture” around learning Japanese is so different from other languages. There’s a large amount of software engineers studying the language, so there’s tons of apps/websites that center around it (for better or worse). The communities are also… particular. People tend to espouse certain deep beliefs or attitudes that you just don’t see for other languages (and I don’t think complexity is the reason; you don’t see…

Funny thing is, these communities aren’t readily visible in real life. At the Japanese language school I attend people are mostly regular people with regular lives and regular limitations. Online, you’d believe that everybody did Wanikani on Adderall for several hours a day.

My experience with Japanese language school was different. Turns out everyone was there because of anime or YouTube bloggers. Wish I’d know. Didn’t have to study to be “good in class” and it felt like a visa mill. So much for in Japan instruction.

Re: Show HN: I'm making an open-source platform for learning Japanese

#50

Post by gregjw »

coldblues wrote: post #15

Apps/platforms don't work for learning Japanese. You just need to memorize the hell out of the vocabulary, spend some time learning the grammar, and most importantly IMMERSE. Watch, read and listen to content in Japanese. https://learnjapanese.moe https://alljapanesealltheti.me/ (this used to be THE guide for learning)

Long term Japanese learner here:

They might not be effective in the long run but saying 'they don't work' is an oversimplification, it depends what benchmark you're setting.

They're definitely worth using for beginning, but yeah, returns slope off.

Post reply on HN