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A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

theatlantic.com

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Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#41

Post by intended »

textadventure wrote: post #39
igor47 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of publishing it seems to me to be "kids in classrooms also think this is a problem". The subject matter is often talked about in the upper echelons and among adults, it's good to see a kid's prospective. It's equivalent to an essay by a kid saying they also struggle with the effects of social media -- it creates a broader consensus environment, helping to build buy in for a shared paradigm

Right, except what I'm saying is that the perspective of a this A+ kind of student is off-putting and not contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way. What I'm saying is precisely that the take of a more genuine, less pretentious kid, would be far more insightful. It's a weak editorial choice.

This does feel like a personal preference has been inflamed here, and is overshadowing your interpretation of the message.

There will be interviews done with non A+ students.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#42

Post by AIorNot »

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option

Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home

Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen

Go back to written exams (handwriting based)

Be lenient on spelling and grammer

Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work

Bring back oral exams (in a limited way)

Encourage study groups in school but don’t allow digital tech in those groups in class or libraries only outside of campus or in computer labs

Give up iPads and Chromebooks and Pearson etc

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#43

Post by kazinator »

AIorNot wrote: post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

There was a time when governments, banks, corporations and institutions had big iron computers, and they were not in the classroom. That time was okay; education happened, and some people who went into computing did very cool things anyway.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#44

Post by rented_mule »

An older analog is calculators. My college intro to stats course didn't allow them. We did simple arithmetic by hand and looked up things like roots and logs in tables. I still have my copy of this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0849306922

I just tutored my nephew through his college intro to stats course. Not only are calculators allowed, but they had a course web app so that all they did was select a dataset, select columns from those datasets, and enter some parameters. They were expected to be able to pick the right technique in the app, select the right things, and interpret the results. Because of the time savings, they covered far more techniques than we did in my day because they weren't spending so much time doing arithmetic.

Despite lots of cries about "who will know how to make calculators?", this transition to calculators (and computers) being allowed was unavoidable because that's how these subjects would be applied later on in students' careers. The same is true of AI, so students need to learn to use it effectively (e.g., not blindly accepting AI answers as truth). It will be difficult for the teachers to make their lesson plans deeper, but I think that's where we're headed.

Another lesson we can draw from the adoption of calculators is that not all kids could afford calculators, so schools sometimes needed to provide them. Schools might need to provide access to AI as well. Maybe you are required to use the school's version and it logs every student's usage as the modern version of "show your work"? And it could intentionally spit out bad answers occasionally to test that students are examining the output. There's a lot to figure out, but we can find inspiration in past transitions.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#45

Post by superb_dev »

OutOfHere wrote: post #21
textadventure wrote: post #18

This take from a Hermione-type High School senior shed next to zero new light on the subject. Yes, we know AI is redefining school and jobs and daily life. The perspective of an obnoxious A+ type student isn't helping, especially because you kind of can read between the lines that she isn't friends with these kids using AI, which would give her a deeper perspective of why and how they are using AI. Is this what The A…

Well said. There are kids who're struggling no matter how hard they try, because the teacher's explanation was miserable, or because they have to actually work part-time for a living. These kids need AI. Without AI they could risk being on the street when they turn 18. Later in life, when their life is more stable, these same kids will be the first to actually use AI to learn the then necessary concepts properly.

No one is going to be put on the streets because they lacked AI.

Bad teachers and a bad economy are no reason to let kids outsource all their thinking to a machine when they’re still learning to think themselves.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#46

Post by wnc3141 »

AIorNot wrote: post #42

I’m an AI engineer but I think schools need a nuclear option Banish tech in schools (including cell phones) (except during comp classes) but allow it at home Ie in high school only allow paper and pencil/pen Go back to written exams (handwriting based) Be lenient on spelling and grammer Allow homework, digital tutoring AI assistants and AI only when it not primary- ie for homework not in class work Bring back oral ex…

The best format I ever learned math was with plain sheets of printer paper, essentially a page per problem letting me doodle the problem and really think it through freely. After working with the concepts we then logged on to Mathematica for visualizations to really cement the concepts.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#47

Post by add-sub-mul-div »

rented_mule wrote: post #44

An older analog is calculators. My college intro to stats course didn't allow them. We did simple arithmetic by hand and looked up things like roots and logs in tables. I still have my copy of this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0849306922 I just tutored my nephew through his college intro to stats course. Not only are calculators allowed, but they had a course web app so that all they did was select a dataset, select co…

What the surface level take about calculators misses is that the average person can't do arithmetic in their head because they don't need to, but they also don't pull out a calculator in the many times a day it would be useful, like at the grocery store. People make horrible decisions with everyday home economics math and are taken advantage of.

The lesson isn't that we survived calculators, it's that they did dull us, and our general thinking and creativity are about to get likewise dulled. Which is much scarier.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#48

Post by wnc3141 »

dangus wrote: post #38

It seems like the real problem here is the curriculum. The school should be removing students' ability to use AI on these assignments, and it really isn't that hard to do. Phones shouldn't be in the classroom, and devices used in the classroom shouldn't have any access to AI. Students shouldn't really have homework anyway so I think it's completely reasonable to just have kids doing work on pen and paper in the class…

A family member who is a teacher used to joke "They gutted the language learning programs and all I got was this lousy iPad." In their eyes, districts appeared to lose the script with the first principles of education and in place spent their resources on the latest tech.

Re: A high schooler writes about AI tools in the classroom

#50

Post by opto »

textadventure wrote: post #23
bdangubic wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

ANY real kid that is unpretentious would do. A "I use AI to cheat at school" article would be far more interesting that this "Oh my God, my peers are hopeless but not me" piece.

I think this is a good point because "cheating at the work I have to do, as quickly as possible, well enough to not get fired" is the actual use case for AI for 99% of people.

All the stuff you see in this thread about how kids are going to use AI to bootstrap an education for themselves even better than what their teachers give them (not sure why there's so much hostility towards teachers) is a fantasy.

HN obviously overrepresents kids who were interested in tech things who may do something like that. The vast majority of kids will use AI as a tool to blurt out essays and coursework they don't read, so that they can get back to their addiction to TikTok and Instagram.

As will, of course, everyone using it at work. This is already the case. This is what AI is for. "Do this for me so I can scroll more".

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