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Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

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Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#41

Post by KennyBlanken »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #3

After 3 decades living in WestCentral FL counties, I learned something about local police departments. You can measure the ethics of the police chief (and to a lesser degree, county commissioners), by whether they embrace or refuse revenue-generating traffic cameras. a school speed zone camera caught him going 38 mph when he thought the speed limit was 40mph because the school speed zone sign wasn’t flashing when he…

The problem is not the cameras, it's the contracts.

The very simple solution is to prohibit camera companies getting a cut of ticket fines, direct funds to the state coffers, and mandate cameras can only be installed after proving via paperwork with photos that the stretch of road has proper signage.

Red light cameras? They drastically reduce t-bone impacts (which have high rates of serious injury and death) while slightly increasing rear-end collisions (which have very low injury rates and were the fault of the drivers speeding and following too closely, and/or driving distracted.) Not the fault of a traffic camera...

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#42

Post by sigwinch »

CalRobert wrote: post #33
bravesoul2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Real wtf is the 40mph is OK in a place kids are (e.g. some go early or stay late or weekend sports) generally around but only drive slow at certain times.

American urban design is almost a competition to see which town or city can rack up the highest pedestrian body count.

(*) suburban design, rather than urban. The nitpick is to keep from lumping pedestrian-safe NYC with, say, Memphis, which exceeds the Netherlands.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#43

Post by Spooky23 »

These things are popping up all over the place now that the recovery funds from feds are gone. My city just implemented them and it’s a shitshow.

It’s hard to argue about it because many people are sick of post-Covid driving behavior. Most traffic enforcement ceased during the pandemic and was slow to resume. I made a few trips from upstate to lower Manhattan in under two hours - you could just set the cruise at 95 and go.

In my state, I think it will undercut complete streets and traffic calming in road engineering. One major avenue in my city is being reconstructed, I’m curious as to whether the city will allow the engineering changes to the road that will improve it and cost $750k-$1M of annual ticket revenue.

There’s also the never mentioned surveillance issue. Most devices log 30 days of video and LPR every vehicle.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#44

Post by parineum »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #16
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #3

After 3 decades living in WestCentral FL counties, I learned something about local police departments. You can measure the ethics of the police chief (and to a lesser degree, county commissioners), by whether they embrace or refuse revenue-generating traffic cameras. a school speed zone camera caught him going 38 mph when he thought the speed limit was 40mph because the school speed zone sign wasn’t flashing when he…

> According to state law, all the money collected by local governments through paid fines can only be used for public safety initiatives like crossing guards and police training. Should the broken flashing lights be fixed? Of course, and "school" times in regard to community safety zones should also be standardised state-wide. What's the incentive for implementing misleading automated ticketing cameras if the revenue…

Now all the money that went to to public safety initiatives from the general fund can go elsewhere. Money turns out to be fungible.

Any time a tax/fee/fine is earmarked for something, it doesn't mean that thing gets more funding. It'll get the same funding but it won't come from the general fund. It's a cruel lie to get people to vote for things they think will get the government to actually serve them.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#45

Post by burnt-resistor »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #3

After 3 decades living in WestCentral FL counties, I learned something about local police departments. You can measure the ethics of the police chief (and to a lesser degree, county commissioners), by whether they embrace or refuse revenue-generating traffic cameras. a school speed zone camera caught him going 38 mph when he thought the speed limit was 40mph because the school speed zone sign wasn’t flashing when he…

St. Augustine, FL: Trespass for peaceful assembly in a public forum declared a "private forum" simply to exclude free speech. https://youtu.be/dnZkf5-8gh8

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#46

Post by BrenBarn »

It's really sad how law in the US is caught in a three-way game of ping-pong between "let people do whatever they feel like doing", "let shady governments and law enforcement use law as a trap to fleece people", and "do everything slapdash and inconsistently so no one knows what's actually allowed". I think it's a fine idea to have automated enforcement of speeding. I'd like it here. But the point of it should be. . . to eliminate speeding. Not to raise revenue. And if you have poor and inconsistent signage and variable enforcement so that people aren't sure what speed is allowed, you didn't actually reduce speeding, you just increased fines.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#47

Post by CalRobert »

sigwinch wrote: post #42
CalRobert wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American urban design is almost a competition to see which town or city can rack up the highest pedestrian body count.

(*) suburban design, rather than urban. The nitpick is to keep from lumping pedestrian-safe NYC with, say, Memphis, which exceeds the Netherlands.

I get what you’re saying but the cities are stroad-filled wastelands too. Even NYC is terrible, though congestion charging helps.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#48

Post by laurencerowe »

bravesoul2 wrote: post #30
hedora wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you seen modern US schools? They're basically setup like prison yards because of all the school shootings. There's no way the kids are going to run into the street without first going through a parking lot (and, often, a line of bollards). On the bright side, there's zero reason to slow cars down when kids aren't being actively picked up or dropped off. (Not that there was a reason to slow the cars down during o…

I am haven't seen a US school. What about walking? I'm guessing most people use the school bus or get driven then?

It only works if you are lucky enough to live the side of the school with the pedestrian entrance. A colleague lived near the side with car entrance so walking their kids to school required walking the extra 1/2 mile around the grounds as they weren’t allowed int he car entrance.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#49

Post by CalRobert »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #38
CalRobert wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting this is bad?

I am suggesting that having a major road that suddenly drops to half speed, without significant signage, then speeds back up is bad, yes. That's just a form of speed trap.

Perhaps the speed limit for the whole street (or road, if it isn’t a street) should be 20 mph then?

To elaborate - ideally there would be a street redesign in that area so 20 mph felt like the right speed. Narrowing, more visual obstructions, etc.

Re: Drivers who appeal school speed zone camera fines almost guaranteed to lose

#50

Post by xboxnolifes »

CalRobert wrote: post #49
xboxnolifes wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am suggesting that having a major road that suddenly drops to half speed, without significant signage, then speeds back up is bad, yes. That's just a form of speed trap.

Perhaps the speed limit for the whole street (or road, if it isn’t a street) should be 20 mph then? To elaborate - ideally there would be a street redesign in that area so 20 mph felt like the right speed. Narrowing, more visual obstructions, etc.

I'm aware of how natural speed limits work. And my point is these are frequently major roads that are miles long, not residential streets. Major arterial roads, sometimes state highways.
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