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Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

thecity.nyc

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Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#41

Post by sculper »

garciasn wrote: post #24
nemomarx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they did just shoot two elected representatives so I think we're a little beyond protests working

When someone attempted to assassinate Trump would you have lumped all of those against Trump into "they"? I don't support what the current administration is doing; not by a long shot. But to say, "they did just shoot two elected representatives," is disingenuous at best.

The current administration explicitly condones violence against political rivals. "They" seems fair.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#42

Post by mlsu »

duxup wrote: post #4

The whole story of telling ICE agents to just go out and find people on their own seems like a setup to empower the executive branch to have their own group of thugs. Without guidance they do what want outside the judicial system and sensible oversight / rules. This seems to be a pattern in most non democratic countries...

Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed.

There is a parallel authoritarian system being built up, starting with the creation of DHS in 2001 and ending god knows where. The massive expansion of ICE should ring alarm bells for everyone. This power grab does not end. It will expand and continue.

Why are the right libertarians and 2A folks not speaking up right now? We have masked feds rolling up and barging in without warrants...?

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#43

Post by woodruffw »

potato3732842 wrote: post #13

The entire framing of this article fact that we don't even know the name of whoever he was trying to protect tells you a lot. Clearly we're not meant to be upset that fed-cops can behave this way generally, we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, a more equal animal, the way they'd treat a common peasant who got similarly uppity. Caring about these generalities is outside our lane.

I don't think that's the point of the article -- I suspect it's more that the average New Yorker reading this NYC news site already knows who Brad Lander is.

(You can also easily imagine why it wouldn't be ideal to publish the name of someone who is actively being harassed by masked thugs.)

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#44

Post by mindslight »

stingrae wrote: post #22

It is insane that federal agents are allowed to roam around in masks, without ID and just arrest people.

It's also insane that state governors haven't deployed their national guards to keep the peace against these lawless masked kidnap gangs [0]. Arrest them with guns drawn like any other violent criminals in the act, and keep them in jail until state judges can review the details of their situation.

This applies more to other kidnappings and less here, because this happened in a fascist-controlled building. But the point is we need to start drawing these types of hard dividing lines based on state authority following the law in good faith, rather than deferring to an autocratic federal executive that increasingly interprets it in bad faith.

[0] sorry fascism-cheerleaders - without uniforms, legal documentation of their authority, accountability to bystanders, and duly-issued arrest warrants, this is what they are.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#46

Post by Juliate »

user3939382 wrote: post #10
lesuorac wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You simply can't arrest people without cause. Generally that cause is a warrant.

You don’t have to physically produce the warrant as long as it’s been issued.

Factually and obviously false.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#47

Post by [deleted] »

Juliate wrote: post #40

There's a thing I don't get, as a non-USAmerican. If someone unidentified, masked, showing no warrant, no legal justification of anything, kidnaps/attempts to kidnap someone, how are (organised) citizens not in their legitimate right to retaliate, according to what their local state allows them to? Similarly, why/how are the law enforcement units not taking side against those kidnapping? I mean, in my country, this w…

[deleted]

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#48

Post by nemomarx »

haswell wrote: post #26
nemomarx wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they did just shoot two elected representatives so I think we're a little beyond protests working

The scale of the protests means the protests are already working. They’re as much about spreading awareness and mobilizing the voting public as they are about current events. I don’t see a connection between their efficacy and what happened in Minnesota, which was an event that is arguably all the more reason to protest.

Good strategy if voting is still allowed in 2028, not super useful if political violence bubbles over into a coup or such.

The scale of the protests is encouraging, but I remember the mass protests under Bush were about as large, and the war continued and he stayed in power. Organization needs to do something with the mass of people who are out in the streets to direct them.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#49

Post by duxup »

mlsu wrote: post #42
duxup wrote: post #4

The whole story of telling ICE agents to just go out and find people on their own seems like a setup to empower the executive branch to have their own group of thugs. Without guidance they do what want outside the judicial system and sensible oversight / rules. This seems to be a pattern in most non democratic countries...

Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. There is a parallel authoritarian system being built up, starting with the creation of DHS in 2001 and ending god knows where. T…

Agreed, ICE seems like a natural org to begin extra legal actions with, fewer limits, you just claim you're doing immigration things and put the accused on a more oppressive track.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#50

Post by jzebedee »

ars wrote: post #27
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials.

[flagged]

Editorializing what, exactly? The rule of law?

"what they were doing" is attempting to illegally abduct someone. The comptroller's "impeding" was a demand to see the one thing that would make their request a legal arrest.

Instead, they arrested the comptroller without even a pretense of the law.

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