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Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

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Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#41

Post by harry8 »

jfim wrote: post #34
94b45eb4 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the user is prompted to give permission for the application to have access to this information then at least you know which ones are doing it and can avoid using them if you are worried about it.

In the case that was mentioned above, hardware frequently has drivers which can run as part of the kernel and can read the memory of other processes, among other things. A user of some hardware would be very likely to install a driver for it, without realizing that a malicious driver can basically do whatever it wants on their system. In practice, if the software one wants to use is not trustable, then it shouldn't b…

In practice, what percentage of windows users does the above translate to "Do not use windows or a computer at all?" What's your estimate?

> 99% ?

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#42

Post by jcelerier »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #31
duskwuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But many applications require "Accessibility" permission that similarly gives far too many privileges? I haven't run into too many applications requesting that permission, outside of desktop automation and window management tools (Hammerspoon, Magnet, etc) which need it to do their job.

Yeah, but any application with that privilege can log all keystrokes and upload it to a third party. Obviously this privilege needs to be far more fine grained and have limitations, i.e. registering a hook on particular key combinations, rather than listening on all key events.

How do you implement an app that displays all the keys you type on screen then no matter which Wayland compositor? (For when you're making video tutorials of an app)

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#43

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

MyPasswordSucks wrote: post #39
poisonborz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why useless? Permission prompts were the best inventions of mobile OSes, there should be much more of them actually. On desktop there could be ways added to sidestep them, eg. defined in bulk in a processname.permissions file somewhere protected.

> Why useless? "This program is asking for extended permissions. It's asking: File permissions: Read, write, and modify" Now, is this because it allows me to select a custom avatar from the files on my device and save it after cropping it in the app? Or is it because it's going to check all my files and upload the really juicy ones to Scary Hacker Doods and change my name in all my documents to "Ima Dichwied"? I dunn…

I think I agree with your general point, but I have to point out that the correct solution - implemented by Flatpak, Android, and I believe macOS and iOS - is that selecting an avatar should use a file picker that only hands the app access to what it needs, and a request for full filesystem access is a red flag.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#44

Post by Gigachad »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #38
Gigachad wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing wrong with a breaking change for good reasons. Locking down the API to protect user privacy and security is one of those good reasons.

It's okay as long as there is a way to opt out. Windows has a "compatibility mode" which users can enable for any executable. That could restore the old API behavior. The single biggest strength of Windows is its ability to run most applications from 30 years ago, and practically all applications from 20 years ago, without a hitch.

I agree with an opt out but it should be difficult. Like entering recovery mode and enabling a legacy mode from the terminal. That way if you’ve got some industrial application you’ve got a way. But malicious software has a hard time getting users to enable it.

Something similar to disabling SIP mode on macOS.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#45

Post by duskwuff »

concerndc1tizen wrote: post #31
duskwuff wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But many applications require "Accessibility" permission that similarly gives far too many privileges? I haven't run into too many applications requesting that permission, outside of desktop automation and window management tools (Hammerspoon, Magnet, etc) which need it to do their job.

Yeah, but any application with that privilege can log all keystrokes and upload it to a third party. Obviously this privilege needs to be far more fine grained and have limitations, i.e. registering a hook on particular key combinations, rather than listening on all key events.

The accessibility permission isn't just for listening to key events. It's for looking at and manipulating content on screen, e.g. moving windows around, sending synthetic keyboard/mouse events, etc. Registering hooks on a specific key combination is a separate API which doesn't require elevated permissions.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#46

Post by poisonborz »

MyPasswordSucks wrote: post #39
poisonborz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why useless? Permission prompts were the best inventions of mobile OSes, there should be much more of them actually. On desktop there could be ways added to sidestep them, eg. defined in bulk in a processname.permissions file somewhere protected.

> Why useless? "This program is asking for extended permissions. It's asking: File permissions: Read, write, and modify" Now, is this because it allows me to select a custom avatar from the files on my device and save it after cropping it in the app? Or is it because it's going to check all my files and upload the really juicy ones to Scary Hacker Doods and change my name in all my documents to "Ima Dichwied"? I dunn…

What would be the alternative? Overcensored app stores and corps insisting on them?

It's more of a question of computer literacy and will be better with time.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#47

Post by Aerroon »

terminalbraid wrote: post #2

Please note this heinous and inexcusable overreach is over five years old and was addressed shortly after being caught: https://web.archive.org/web/20200307082846/https://community... Wacom now has an opt-in for data collection. What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it . If you ru…

I think applications should not have internet access by default. They should require the user to give them permission either temporary or permanent permission to connect to the internet. Ultimately that's where the security bottleneck is.

I'm frankly disgusted that drivers for hardware like this need to connect to the internet in the first place. This data is clearly not being used to improve the user experience. If it was, then it wouldn't have been a surprise for Wacom that it was collected. Other companies, like Microsoft, also wouldn't be making such terrible UI/UX decisions time and time again, if this data was actually used for improving the user experience.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#48

Post by alok-g »

Aerroon wrote: post #47
terminalbraid wrote: post #2

Please note this heinous and inexcusable overreach is over five years old and was addressed shortly after being caught: https://web.archive.org/web/20200307082846/https://community... Wacom now has an opt-in for data collection. What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it . If you ru…

I think applications should not have internet access by default. They should require the user to give them permission either temporary or permanent permission to connect to the internet. Ultimately that's where the security bottleneck is. I'm frankly disgusted that drivers for hardware like this need to connect to the internet in the first place. This data is clearly not being used to improve the user experience. If…

More than a decade back, I used to do this using firewall rules. Ot used to be a single-click firewall setting to disable all apps by default, have a pop-up show up when an app not already in the rule set would try to access the Internet, and thus keep building / refining the rules.

One workaround apps had was to open a browser window to send information over.

There's no reason I would want mouse / keyboard / pen-tablet / printer, etc. drivers to be accessing the Internet, not even for checking for updates. And there's no real reason for these drivers to be more than a kew KB in size, leave alone 100+ MBs like these have been since ages.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#49

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Gigachad wrote: post #44
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's okay as long as there is a way to opt out. Windows has a "compatibility mode" which users can enable for any executable. That could restore the old API behavior. The single biggest strength of Windows is its ability to run most applications from 30 years ago, and practically all applications from 20 years ago, without a hitch.

I agree with an opt out but it should be difficult. Like entering recovery mode and enabling a legacy mode from the terminal. That way if you’ve got some industrial application you’ve got a way. But malicious software has a hard time getting users to enable it. Something similar to disabling SIP mode on macOS.

Remember, we're talking about a hardware driver here! It has access to the kernel, so it can ultimately do whatever it wants, the API just makes it easier.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#50

Post by perching_aix »

Liftyee wrote: post #35
perching_aix wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I asked myself and the answer is no. Now what? I have dealbreaker problems with Linux and Mac. I'm also not going to pull a Terry Davis and make my own OS, and I'm not willing to participate in the circus that is open source either. With these in mind, what am I supposed to do, move to the mountains and live the life of a hermit? Once again, not happening. It'd appear that I'm between a rock and a hard place - exactl…

I'd say that in these cases, when there really is no viable option (including just not using...) then the optimal course of action is to choose the "least worst". Compromises work where ultimatums fail.

I agree. This is why I continue to stay on Windows, for now.
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