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Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

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Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#31

Post by concerndc1tizen »

duskwuff wrote: post #12
concerndc1tizen wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. IIUC, X11 had the same problem, but Wayland allows sandboxing to prevent this? And MacOS has some degree of sandboxing? But many applications require "Accessibility" permission that similarly gives far too many privileges?

> But many applications require "Accessibility" permission that similarly gives far too many privileges? I haven't run into too many applications requesting that permission, outside of desktop automation and window management tools (Hammerspoon, Magnet, etc) which need it to do their job.

Yeah, but any application with that privilege can log all keystrokes and upload it to a third party. Obviously this privilege needs to be far more fine grained and have limitations, i.e. registering a hook on particular key combinations, rather than listening on all key events.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#32

Post by LadyCailin »

94b45eb4 wrote: post #29
jfim wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. That's there because it's been in there forever in the win32 API, and changing that would break applications. For example, a long time ago, I wrote a small application that would iterate through a list of executables, launch each one seq…

If the user is prompted to give permission for the application to have access to this information then at least you know which ones are doing it and can avoid using them if you are worried about it.

This suggestion is not exactly a walled garden, but it moves very suddenly in that direction. Not sure that’s a great direction to head in.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#34

Post by jfim »

94b45eb4 wrote: post #29
jfim wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. That's there because it's been in there forever in the win32 API, and changing that would break applications. For example, a long time ago, I wrote a small application that would iterate through a list of executables, launch each one seq…

If the user is prompted to give permission for the application to have access to this information then at least you know which ones are doing it and can avoid using them if you are worried about it.

In the case that was mentioned above, hardware frequently has drivers which can run as part of the kernel and can read the memory of other processes, among other things. A user of some hardware would be very likely to install a driver for it, without realizing that a malicious driver can basically do whatever it wants on their system.

In practice, if the software one wants to use is not trustable, then it shouldn't be run, at least on current mainstream desktop operating systems.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#35

Post by Liftyee »

perching_aix wrote: post #7
terminalbraid wrote: post #2

Please note this heinous and inexcusable overreach is over five years old and was addressed shortly after being caught: https://web.archive.org/web/20200307082846/https://community... Wacom now has an opt-in for data collection. What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it . If you ru…

I asked myself and the answer is no. Now what? I have dealbreaker problems with Linux and Mac. I'm also not going to pull a Terry Davis and make my own OS, and I'm not willing to participate in the circus that is open source either. With these in mind, what am I supposed to do, move to the mountains and live the life of a hermit? Once again, not happening. It'd appear that I'm between a rock and a hard place - exactl…

I'd say that in these cases, when there really is no viable option (including just not using...) then the optimal course of action is to choose the "least worst". Compromises work where ultimatums fail.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#36

Post by Gigachad »

jfim wrote: post #11
terminalbraid wrote: post #2

Please note this heinous and inexcusable overreach is over five years old and was addressed shortly after being caught: https://web.archive.org/web/20200307082846/https://community... Wacom now has an opt-in for data collection. What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it . If you ru…

> What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. That's there because it's been in there forever in the win32 API, and changing that would break applications. For example, a long time ago, I wrote a small application that would iterate through a list of executables, launch each one seq…

There’s nothing wrong with a breaking change for good reasons. Locking down the API to protect user privacy and security is one of those good reasons.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#37

Post by [deleted] »

perching_aix wrote: post #21
Buttons840 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What option do I have left after rejecting every other option?" I guess the answer, for you, is that you have no other option. For others, I'll say that I've had 3 Wacom tablets (I keep upgrading), including one with a screen and they have all worked well enough with open-source drivers. They're popular enough that you can do some research to know how they will work on Linux.

> I guess the answer for you, is that you have no other options. Yes, which is exactly what I was getting at. I'm not in the situation where if only I spent some time on introspection and "asked myself", I'd all of a sudden have this lightbulb moment that hey, what if I just switched to Linux or bought a Mac instead, despite what people like GP might like to think. This is a lot like when people try to - sometimes ki…

[deleted]

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#38

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Gigachad wrote: post #36
jfim wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. That's there because it's been in there forever in the win32 API, and changing that would break applications. For example, a long time ago, I wrote a small application that would iterate through a list of executables, launch each one seq…

There’s nothing wrong with a breaking change for good reasons. Locking down the API to protect user privacy and security is one of those good reasons.

It's okay as long as there is a way to opt out. Windows has a "compatibility mode" which users can enable for any executable. That could restore the old API behavior.

The single biggest strength of Windows is its ability to run most applications from 30 years ago, and practically all applications from 20 years ago, without a hitch.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#39

Post by MyPasswordSucks »

poisonborz wrote: post #22
jaoane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. No thank you, I want to keep my OS with apps that are powerful and that doesn't show me a useless permission prompt every five minutes.

Why useless? Permission prompts were the best inventions of mobile OSes, there should be much more of them actually. On desktop there could be ways added to sidestep them, eg. defined in bulk in a processname.permissions file somewhere protected.

> Why useless?

"This program is asking for extended permissions. It's asking:

File permissions: Read, write, and modify"

Now, is this because it allows me to select a custom avatar from the files on my device and save it after cropping it in the app? Or is it because it's going to check all my files and upload the really juicy ones to Scary Hacker Doods and change my name in all my documents to "Ima Dichwied"? I dunno! I have no way of knowing! Gosh, I guess I'll just figure out if I trust the app or not and click "sure" if I do, which means I'm in the exact same boat I'd be in before the permission prompt addicts came into vogue, except with the added annoyance of a popup (and occasionally an app which then needs to be restarted because the initial lack of access threw it into an unexpected state). This does not benefit me. It does not make my device safer. It does not make me feel safer. It does not make my experience more pleasurable. It will never do any of those things. It only serves to slightly raise my baseline level of annoyance.

And I'm someone who (sometimes) knows what I'm doing! It's even worse for people who aren't tech-savvy! The Joe Sixpack user class has split into two camps, one of which is mindlessly clicking "YES I want to run it, YES it can make changes, YES I'm sure, YES the .msi called by the .exe can also run and make changes, YES I want the free 30-day trial of Pro Premium Plus edition, YES I consent to automatic billing on day 31, YES install the browser toolbar, YES let's play Global Thermonuclear War!" because they're, surprise surprise, completely desensitized to warning prompts thanks to the over-proliferation of nattering popup nonsense, and the other of which is thrown into a state of catatonic call-a-geek terror because their GPS app is asking for permission to view their location.

Re: Wacom drawing tablets track the name of every application you open (2020)

#40

Post by userbinator »

poisonborz wrote: post #22
jaoane wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What should be the real continuing inexcusable outrage is that Windows, even today, grants all applications full access to read the titles of all windows with no way to disable it. No thank you, I want to keep my OS with apps that are powerful and that doesn't show me a useless permission prompt every five minutes.

Why useless? Permission prompts were the best inventions of mobile OSes, there should be much more of them actually. On desktop there could be ways added to sidestep them, eg. defined in bulk in a processname.permissions file somewhere protected.

No... besides the concerns about creating a proprietary walled garden, that just causes prompt fatigue and they will allow anyway, creating the same problem again and further irritating users.
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