Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

cato.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 115 posts

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#41

Post by tombert »

quantified wrote: post #36
tombert wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that's a pretty reductive take, and if you believe that then you should be ok with decreasing birth rates as well? Every baby born today could be competition for you or your kids in ~16-30 years.

I'll bite. Quality of life in terms of natural resources available only goes down with more people. I'd be much happier with maybe 25% of current population level.

That's fair enough, but it would require a pretty radical restructure of our economy to do that. Most of our economy sort of depends on a growing population; this has been an issue with Japan (and their slowly-shrinking and aging population) for quite awhile.

Eventually, of course, we will all have to have a neutral or negative population growth rate, but I have to believe that there's an advantage to being the last country with a growing population, though I don't have data to back that up off the top of my head.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#42

Post by rednafi »

kykeonaut wrote: post #40
rednafi wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobel Prize winners are only allowed because the country is overwhelmed with illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, and refugees who contribute little to the system. However, there is a group that benefits from undocumented workers taking underpaid, off-the-books jobs, and they hold significant influence in policymaking.

Isn't "contributing little to the system" and "taking underpaid jobs" a contradiction? If you are taking a job, you are contributing to the system.

*little

The country could focus on legal immigration and increase the contribution from little to more.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#43

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

quantified wrote: post #36
tombert wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that's a pretty reductive take, and if you believe that then you should be ok with decreasing birth rates as well? Every baby born today could be competition for you or your kids in ~16-30 years.

I'll bite. Quality of life in terms of natural resources available only goes down with more people. I'd be much happier with maybe 25% of current population level.

Your comment is a common anti-immigrant trope: we're full/out of water/out of land/out of X!

Where there are shortages why should the solutions be focused on restricting immigration? Should people having children also be penalized?

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#44

Post by jacknews »

Just getting a visa has suddenly become near impossible it seems.

My daughter just applied as part of a small tour of models/entertainers that were going to help raise funds to build a church (in the US), and was denied, due they said, to no evidence there was anything to compel her to leave the US and return home.

She is a minor, still lives with us at home, and goes to senior high school, i mean, WTF? Also, I quote, she 'wouldn't want to live in US, if they paid (her) to'.

This same group have been going for several years now, but suddenly they were all denied this year.

The kicker is the visa fee of around $300 is forfeit, the denial notice says you can't appeal, but you can apply again, if you pay again. Riiggght.

I really feel scammed. Is it possible to sue? I know an Aussie friend who successfully sued Australian immigration in a similar case for example.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#45

Post by mzmzmzm »

legitster wrote: post #23

Milton Friedman: > If you have free immigration, in the way we had it before 1914, everybody benefited. The people who were here benefited. The people who came benefited. Because nobody would come unless he, or his family, thought he would do better here than he would elsewhere. And, the new immigrants provided additional resources, provided additional possibilities for the people already here. So everybody can mutua…

Couldn't you satisfy the patterns Friedman identifies just by having perpetually renewable work visas and a path to full citizenship after an arbitrary time like 10 years?

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#46

Post by programjames »

tomrod wrote: post #16
blindriver wrote: post #6

Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. This is the underlying truth that is indisputable. This article says that it grants 1 million green cards per year to legal immigrants, which is extremely generous. To say it's "nearly impossible" is absurd. I myself, my wife, and 80% of my friends are all legal immigrants to the US.

> Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. I'll bite. Why not? We let capital typically move freely. Why shouldn't people be as free to move as money?

I think movement is pretty free for people that can demonstrate they would be net-positive to the country they're moving to. I don't really see why movement should be free for anyone who would be net-negative. It's true that demonstrating the ability =/= having the ability, and I think most systems could be improved to filter for that better, but I don't think that's significantly affecting America's immigration process. It isn't very hard to get an O1/E1 visa, or at least a student visa, if you're decent in your subject area.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#47

Post by legitster »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #34
legitster wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't ask of every baby that is being born in the US how they will make the country better. But if given the option to bring in a fully grown adult, who already saves us the cost of an education, is of prime working age, and wants to be in this country, we suddenly care?

When every US citizen who wants a job in the US has one, one they can live off of with a living wage, sure, it’s up for a conversation (when legitimate labor shortages exist vs faux shortages leveraged as labor cost controls). Why am I going to support immigration that drives down wages for capital returns? Because it makes “the country” more wealthy by making a select few wealthier? Ineffective policy imho. I am nev…

By that logic we should restrict the number of children being born. But the growth of our country from a population of 50 million to 300 million did not result in a job loss of 250 million jobs.

If anything, immigrants create many more jobs than they take. The deadweight to an economy is it's non-working population (retirees, children) so an influx of young, working families increases wages overall for natives.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#48

Post by uberman »

kykeonaut wrote: post #37
Freedom2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just have to be extra-ordinary in your field. So pretty much most HN commenters, then.

Seems like implicit bias. "Many people in my circle have an H1-B visa, thus it is far from impossible to get one."

H1-b visas are non-imigrant visas...

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#49

Post by programjames »

kykeonaut wrote: post #37
Freedom2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just have to be extra-ordinary in your field. So pretty much most HN commenters, then.

Seems like implicit bias. "Many people in my circle have an H1-B visa, thus it is far from impossible to get one."

I'm perfectly aware most people would fail this easy task, but a thousand years ago most people would fail to read. Just because it's easy, doesn't mean most people will succeed.

Re: Why Legal Immigration Is Nearly Impossible: US Legal Immigration Rules Explained

#50

Post by programjames »

jalapenos wrote: post #25
blindriver wrote: post #6

Just because someone wants to immigrate to the US doesn't mean they should be allowed. This is the underlying truth that is indisputable. This article says that it grants 1 million green cards per year to legal immigrants, which is extremely generous. To say it's "nearly impossible" is absurd. I myself, my wife, and 80% of my friends are all legal immigrants to the US.

Absolutely, this "impossibility" is a dishonest exaggeration with propaganda intent to loosen immigration further. In the same vein as the "shortage of engineers" ("we want cheaper payroll please") articles that circulate from time to time.

So, I agree that there isn't a big enough shortage of engineers to prompt a need for easier immigration there, but I also agree that Americans aren't as technically skilled as they should be compared to foreigners.
Post reply on HN