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The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

shreyans.org

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Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#41

Fatherhood transforms men. Becoming a father was by far the most transformative event of my entire life so far. This is the common refrain I’ve heard. Of course, you also have to live up to the vocation.

Divorce, child support, alimony, and two weekends of time with your kids per month (what the majority of men end up with), can also be transformative!

If anyone reading this is thinking about having kids, be really careful who you have them with.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#42
post #9

Is it like this for everyone? I sometimes wonder how large the number of cases is where the parent does not feel like that at all but refrains from sharing it due to societal expectations and fear of being judged. It would introduce a bias regarding these stories.

It's certainly not. To speak plainly, I wasn't terribly interested in my son until he turned 3 years old. Then he started talking, started developing a personality with interests of his own, and fatherhood then became much more interesting. But I was intentionally quite uninvolved in those very early years. I don't regret this, don't see how else it could have been, and indeed I feel that some degree of fatherly aloo…

> some degree of fatherly aloofness towards infants is natural.

That may have been your experience, but I would push back hard against generalizing that notion.

For my first child, we bottle-fed formula, and I was very involved in her routine: night feedings, diaper changes, counting days since the last poop, all of it. I felt very invested in every tiny milestone. It was a lot of problem solving, and I was very invested in her progress.

For my second child, because my wife breast-fed that time, I felt a little bit more like an outsider. I jumped in to help where I could, but it took longer for me to feel the same kind of connection. I also got much less paternity leave the second time around, which is likely the bigger factor.

All that to say, I think there are a lot of environmental factors that can play into infant attachment. No one should feel guilty for not having attachment right away, but it should still be pursued.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#43
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a second time parent, looking back now, that is such a good advice. On the first play-through we second guessed ourselves so much. On the second time, we knew where all the good loot was hidden. :) we felt so much more in control. The truth is that a lot of details first-time parents try to control don't really matter that much or cannot really be controlled.

What are these details? I'm curious to know what to focus on and what not to.

Sometimes when they have a temper tantrum (at home) it’s ok to let them scream for 5 minutes. Usually when they realize you don’t care they start to calm down.

Letting a baby fuss in their crib for 5-10 minutes won’t kill them if you need to take a shit.

Start feeding them more than just milk/formula at 6-8 months.

They’re going to fall and hurt themselves a lot, kids bounce.

Kids feel your energy and reflect it like a mirror, and they hear fucking EVERYTHING you say when when you don’t see them.

Saying “no” is a good thing, kids actually crave structure, and rules create structure. And tantrums, see first point.

Always, always, always follow through. If you say “throw that again and I’m taking it” and you don’t take it, you’re setting yourself up for more testing of boundaries. Also, don’t make a threat you don’t mean.

I could probably write a book, if this was helpful I can keep going.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#44
post #38

I love this one: > My mother came in with a great tip: when in doubt, ask second time parents, not other first timers. So true in so many levels.

Even if the other first timer is years ahead of you in parenting because they have an older child, whereas you have a newborn, they just don't remember the newborn stage anymore, and only went through it once. It is all a distant blur to them.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#45
post #9

Is it like this for everyone? I sometimes wonder how large the number of cases is where the parent does not feel like that at all but refrains from sharing it due to societal expectations and fear of being judged. It would introduce a bias regarding these stories.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8294566/

>Surveys conducted over the last few years on representative samples in the US and Germany suggest that the percentage of parents who regret having children is approximately 17–8%.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#46
post #9

Is it like this for everyone? I sometimes wonder how large the number of cases is where the parent does not feel like that at all but refrains from sharing it due to societal expectations and fear of being judged. It would introduce a bias regarding these stories.

It's certainly not. To speak plainly, I wasn't terribly interested in my son until he turned 3 years old. Then he started talking, started developing a personality with interests of his own, and fatherhood then became much more interesting. But I was intentionally quite uninvolved in those very early years. I don't regret this, don't see how else it could have been, and indeed I feel that some degree of fatherly aloo…

[flagged]

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#47
I have four children. I have never regretted it or wished for a different path. I know it isn't for everyone, but it absolutely was and is for me.

At the same time I do think articles like this should be countered with the reality that many fathers aren't overwhelmed with waves of love or "surreal magnificence". With each of my children being born the primary emotions I could point to were dread and anxiety.

The sudden overwhelming obligation to provide care, comfort and security for such a vulnerable human for decades encompasses your being.

One of the reasons birthrates have plummeted in the West, and sentiments about having children have dropped, is that we have no "village", so to speak. Having children is not only an astronomical expense -- every single element of life is dramatically more expensive, made much worse with the housing crisis occurring in many Western nations -- a couple is often entirely on their own. There are no respites or breaks.

And as children get viewed as a selfish luxury, the social norms for what a parent needs to do to be proper climb ever higher.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#49
Ah, the beauty of hormones and how they effect your perception of life and love.

My experience resonates with the authors. But certainly the experience ranges dramatically for different people under different life circumstances.

Re: The Surreal Magnificence of Fatherhood

#50
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a counterpoint.

I definitely feel a lot dumber compared to ~8 years and three kids ago. Lack of sleep, lack of agency, continuous need for some background level of vigilance...

Oh I'm not arguing that the study is flawed, I'm saying it's not applicable to the point of the post
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