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NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

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Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#41

Post by eej71 »

rayiner wrote: post #32
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

We socialized people to realize smoking is dirty, then went ahead and legalized marijuana so now kids who would never have smoked cigarettes are filling their lungs with tar: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/health/marijuana-smoke-wellne... . At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

I've often wondered if our complete demonization of all smoking was a bit of a disservice to the sporadic smoke that likely helped with managing one's weight which has its own health benefits.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#43

Post by mctt »

prox wrote: post #36
downrightmike wrote: post #35

The netflix documentary is pretty amazing. You get to see people start of with ideals of making smoking safe and as time goes on and they make deals for money, that they justify the increasingly evil things they are doing because they are making more money.

What documentary is that?

https://whereto.stream/tv/235540

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#44

Post by jorvi »

uniqueuid wrote: post #31
dudisubekti wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what’s so bad about nicotine? Is it any worse than caffeine? I’m genuinely curious, because isn’t tar and carbon monoxide the dangerous byproduct of smoking, not the nicotine?

There are many studies on the effect of nicotine. I would look for several meta-analyses or umbrella (meta-meta) analyses. Ideally reporting all-cause mortality. Here is one like that: ~500k individuals, vaping has an odds ratio of 1.33 (95% CI = 1.14–1.56) for heart attacks compared to non-smoker/non-vapers. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01675... [edit] To compare that to caffeine, this stud…

You are conflating the harms of the delivery mechanism with the harms of the substance.

Nicotine gum is relatively harmless for example. Or perhaps imbibe on a Nicotini[0]?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotini

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#45

Post by bayindirh »

madog wrote: post #37
bayindirh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine addiction is chronic and very hard to break. You can reset caffeine tolerance and dependence in 10 days.

Actually with vaping it becomes pretty easy to quit. You just taper down the nicotine slowly until you're on nothing and eventually you just kind of stop because you don't feel the need to do it anymore.

What about body's response? Is it easy to curb?

I was drinking 2 liters of coffee per day while finishing my Ph.D.. Next week I wasn't drinking, and after that I occasionally drank half a cup per day. This was seven years ago, and I still drink half a cup, because I like the taste of coffee.

I have at least a dozen vaping friends who said they started to stop smoking. Now at least half of them have heavily souped up, customized e-cigs. Two of them are making their own liquids with nicotine, rest are using bog-standard vapes.

None of them stopped smoking or nicotine intake, which was the goal of all of them.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#46

Post by pavel_lishin »

rayiner wrote: post #32
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

We socialized people to realize smoking is dirty, then went ahead and legalized marijuana so now kids who would never have smoked cigarettes are filling their lungs with tar: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/health/marijuana-smoke-wellne... . At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

> At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

Until you lean in for a kiss, or even a hug.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#47

Post by Salgat »

madog wrote: post #37
bayindirh wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nicotine addiction is chronic and very hard to break. You can reset caffeine tolerance and dependence in 10 days.

Actually with vaping it becomes pretty easy to quit. You just taper down the nicotine slowly until you're on nothing and eventually you just kind of stop because you don't feel the need to do it anymore.

Easier != Easy

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#48

Post by uniqueuid »

fidotron wrote: post #39
lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

You say it like that it is desirable. Unfortunately people perform better when they have nicotine, so the effect for society as a whole is non negligible if a huge mass of people get a slight performance bounce. Smoking is annoying, disgusting, unhealthy etc. but we are way too quick to dismiss the possibility that nicotine itself may have been a civilization booster.

That's a very interesting, but completely ad-hoc theory.

The problem with these is that there are almost always equally plausible theories, and it's really hard to figure out which is correct.

Especially given the huge amount of effort that has gone into research on tobacco and nicotine (I guess millions of hours, if not more), I would definitely NOT say we are too quick to dismiss the possibility.

I'm sure you can find an interesting econometric paper presenting this argument, but then it would be more credible.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#49

Post by lenerdenator »

eej71 wrote: post #41
rayiner wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We socialized people to realize smoking is dirty, then went ahead and legalized marijuana so now kids who would never have smoked cigarettes are filling their lungs with tar: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/14/health/marijuana-smoke-wellne... . At least cigarettes made people skinny and hot.

I've often wondered if our complete demonization of all smoking was a bit of a disservice to the sporadic smoke that likely helped with managing one's weight which has its own health benefits.

The problem came from the fact that sporadic smoking didn't serve the profits of tobacco companies in the way they would have liked.

The shoving of high-fructose corn syrup and other calorie-rich ingredients into everything sold in the US to increase consumption (again, for profits) has a much greater impact on weight management, though.

Re: NYU professors who defended vaping didn't disclose ties to Juul

#50

Post by Grimeton »

lenerdenator wrote: post #9

It really is amazing. We were thiiiiiiis close to having a generation that wasn't addicted to nicotine for the first time in hundreds of years (like, since trade between North America and Europe really became a thing) and these guys pulled this thumb drive that tastes like cotton candy out of nowhere and every young person is just jonesing . And the regulatory/public opinion environment isn't what it was in the 80s a…

20 years from now the cigarette will have a comeback as "totally natural", " 100% bio", "no batteries needed"...
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