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Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

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Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#41

Post by redbad »

pistoriusp wrote: post #34

I was in Berlin in December, with my fiance, to check it out as I was considering it as a potential place to work for a few a year or two. It didn't resonate with me. But everyone has their own experiences. Below are some of the good and bad from my experiences: 1. Transportation is amazing. Not having a car is a non-issue. The most I waited for a train was 10 minutes. Drinking and smoking are allowed in the undergro…

    Drinking and smoking are allowed in the underground stations.
Drinking is, but only beer (I think some max ABV%). Smoking is not allowed, though it doesn't stop some people, I guess.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#42

Post by zalew »

redbad wrote: post #41
pistoriusp wrote: post #34

I was in Berlin in December, with my fiance, to check it out as I was considering it as a potential place to work for a few a year or two. It didn't resonate with me. But everyone has their own experiences. Below are some of the good and bad from my experiences: 1. Transportation is amazing. Not having a car is a non-issue. The most I waited for a train was 10 minutes. Drinking and smoking are allowed in the undergro…

Drinking and smoking are allowed in the underground stations. Drinking is, but only beer (I think some max ABV%). Smoking is not allowed, though it doesn't stop some people, I guess.

I smoked once on the S-bahn station (wouldn't imagine it can be allowed on U-bahn), and the security politely informed me with a smile that it's not allowed. In my homecountry I'm not used to any form of security being polite.

Not only beer, you forgot gluhwein :)

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#44

Post by domodomo »

What is the VC culture like in Berlin? Are there many VCs, and what kind of companies do they typically invest in?

To me, this is the difference between a good town for bootstrapping and a good town for creating a startup. As it stands, this article seems more like an argument for why Berlin is a great place to bootstrap a company. Which is also great, but different.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#45

Post by happimess »

derrida wrote: post #15
bergie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

C-base ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-base ) and co-up ( http://co-up.de/ ) would probably be good starting points for a visiting hacker. I've also heard a lot of start-up people hang out in Sankt Oberholz ( http://www.sanktoberholz.de/?lang=en ), but I have no personal experience on that one.

There are also a number of other hacker-spaces and the Chaos Computer Club. There is one hacker space devoted entirely to the intersection between Textiles and Electronics. Just a warning, Berlin is not the valley. It is it's own unique and awesome thing. A huge proportion of the hacking community couldn't care less about start ups. But it is a large community, and I can't speak for everyone.

Do you have any links for the other hacker spaces in Berlin? I'll be travelling there in the very near future, and will likely need a space to work while I'm there.

I'll be there for a month, and don't mind paying a membership fee. I already checked out c-base, co.up, and Sankt Oberholz, linked above. They look promising, but more information can only help.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#46

Post by tomjen3 »

pdelgallego wrote: post #9
bergie wrote: post #4

I moved to Berlin from Helsinki (another regional start-up hub) last March: http://bergie.iki.fi/blog/hacker-nomadism/ There are several things that I've been positively surprised about: * Cost of living is really cheap. Now when I travel to France or Finland I feel everything is expensive there * Berlin is very well connected with rest of Europe (trains, flights) * The hacker scene here is great (huge meetups, etc)…

> Since moving inside Europe is really simple, I'd urge anybody curious to take a shot and stay here for a while. Not everywhere in the EU, I moved to Denmark almost two years ago, and I am completely sure that the Danish system was designed to keep people out of their border. Simple tasks like open a bank account are a troublesome for even EU citizens

As a Dane, I can confirm that most of the policies here are created to keep foreigners out.

Until recently the government needed the support from a small nationalistic party and those laws and regulations were the price.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#47

Post by _b8r0 »

This isn't a very well written article. Comparing Berlin to Paris isn't a fair comparison. Paris for example, is subject to some of the most startup-hostile laws in the EU. The adage of hire slowly and fire quickly just doesn't work there, yet somehow this doesn't make the article.

It seems like the crux of the article is based on Berlin being cheaper than Paris. Well, to be honest most of Europe is cheaper than most of central Paris. You could just as easily claim that Athens is cheaper than Paris, but I hardly see Athens as a startup hub for years to come.

The point about Berlin's geographical location given the ease of transport within the EU for EU member state citizens is laughable. What about the talent in Germany? There are some great universities in Germany that are overlooked in favour of what? Poland? If one of Berlin's best points is it's proximity to Poland, then Berlin is in serious trouble as a startup hub. I imagine that a lot of (but not all) Poles might not see Germany as a natural startup destination anymore than Russia. Besides, there's a heck of a lot of smart Polish people who work all around the world as well as shock in Poland.

Is Berlin better than Paris to launch a startup? Almost certainly. Almost anywhere outside of France is better than France to launch a startup right now (considering the red tape, taxis and uncertainty under Hollande) but it has a long way to go to displace London and for Germany the UK in general.

In conclusion, in the EU if you want cheap, go to Bucharest. If you want good, go to London.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#48

Post by Tomis02 »

pistoriusp wrote: post #34

I was in Berlin in December, with my fiance, to check it out as I was considering it as a potential place to work for a few a year or two. It didn't resonate with me. But everyone has their own experiences. Below are some of the good and bad from my experiences: 1. Transportation is amazing. Not having a car is a non-issue. The most I waited for a train was 10 minutes. Drinking and smoking are allowed in the undergro…

December, and generally winter without snow, makes Berlin (or Kreuzberg, specifically) look ugly. Try spring, it's much better.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#49

Post by redbad »

happimess wrote: post #45
derrida wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also a number of other hacker-spaces and the Chaos Computer Club. There is one hacker space devoted entirely to the intersection between Textiles and Electronics. Just a warning, Berlin is not the valley. It is it's own unique and awesome thing. A huge proportion of the hacking community couldn't care less about start ups. But it is a large community, and I can't speak for everyone.

Do you have any links for the other hacker spaces in Berlin? I'll be travelling there in the very near future, and will likely need a space to work while I'm there. I'll be there for a month, and don't mind paying a membership fee. I already checked out c-base, co.up, and Sankt Oberholz, linked above. They look promising, but more information can only help.

Another popular coworking café in Kreuzberg is The Nest, http://cafenest.de.

Re: Paris & Berlin – The tale of two cities (Part 1: The facts you can’t ignore)

#50

Post by nhebb »

Kototama wrote: post #37
drats wrote: post #25

Even Parisians often flee Paris because of red tape and taxes, so if you add a foreign accent, or poor to no French, into the mix you are likely going to be going at a snail's pace. Berlin is cheaper, friendlier to business, friendlier to English and just friendlier in general on the street. The cheapness translates as a factor for employees (their home), and the international orientation of the city allows you to dr…

I'd be fairly surprised if there was even a single metric on which Paris beats Berlin for anything business related Like Paris having the biggest business center in Europe? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_D%C3%A9fense

That's an interesting read. I'd never heard of La Défense before, but the wiki page makes me wonder whether it's the largest business center in Europe because of some set of favorables or if it is because there are so many historic areas in Paris that businesses are relegated to that area.
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