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Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

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Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#41

Post by lozenge »

dubcanada wrote: post #20
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

Look at how Google pushed Chrome on its websites and people picked it up.

They could do the same for web apps. What's been limiting them all this time is Apple policy.

Apple policy 1- PWAs on iPhone must use Safari, Safari only has features Apple chooses to implement

Apple policy 2- Add to Home Screen is hidden away

Now with DMA, Google could make its own web browser, provide all their apps as "PWAs that work with Chrome and not Safari" and people could go along with it. Heck they could even start their own app store without the apps having to follow any of Apple's "alternative distribution" rules- because they're web apps, not native apps.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#42

Post by adestefan »

edhelas wrote: post #25
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

The App Store didn’t even exist until the iPhone 3G. Everything was suppose to be a web app until everyone, including HN, bitched about the lack of native apps.

Now here you all are 15 years later bemoaning what you have helped create.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#43

Post by hu3 »

dubcanada wrote: post #20
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

That's because there was never a comparable alternative to app store.

EU is forcing Apple to allow alternates and Apple is doing all they can to delay and avoid, kicking and screaming.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#44

Post by [deleted] »

zer00eyz wrote: post #31
edhelas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

The same subset of people who just go to the App Store just take their car to the dealership for oil changes (a lot) As tech people we tend to see through apples "dealer" bullshit, just like car people.

[deleted]

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#45

Post by postalrat »

anon373839 wrote: post #29
endisneigh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open it up in safari and forgo full screen - add a header so you can scroll slightly and it’s 98% full screen. The real solution is to stop using Apple products and use android which can do what you’re asking trivially.

If you’re going to use an app in Safari, I actually prefer to just restrict the thing to 100svh to force the full Safari UI to stick around. It’s distracting and disorienting to have the tab bar and address bar shrinking and growing at random while using an app, with the app UI wiggling all over the place.

At least in Android when you install and get a home screen button your page uses the full height with no browser chrome like any other app.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#46

Post by Thorrez »

What are people's thoughts on Apple's argument:

>Addressing the complex security and privacy concerns associated with web apps using alternative browser engines would require building an entirely new integration architecture that does not currently exist in iOS and was not practical to undertake given the other demands of the DMA and the very low user adoption of Home Screen web apps.

>In short, Apple is saying it knows how to fix the problem but because it’s been burdened by having to comply with the DMA — which it noted had required “more than 600 new APIs and a wide range of developer tools” — it decided to skip fixing this one.

Would allowing web apps require apple to build 600 new APIs? Would it require other web engines to integrate with those 600 APIs before being able to launch web apps?

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#47

Post by CuriouslyC »

steve1977 wrote: post #4
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

He's right. Apple has been strangling web app progress on iOS for many years. They wanted to ensure that web apps could never compete with native apps on the App Store, because they can extract their 30% fee. Now that Apple are forced to permit third party browser engines, web apps would suddenly be a lot more powerful. Apple just won't have that, so they're disabling a useful feature for everyone. I think this will…

I’ve always been vocal against web apps and pro native apps. Actions like this and also the direction Apple is taking with SwiftUI actually makes me interested in web apps again.

Web apps will win eventually, there's only so much chrome and flash you can stuff in a native app and with WebASM/WebGPU becoming more robust the performance difference between native and webapp for things short of stuff like games is not really meaningful.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#48

Post by torlok »

adestefan wrote: post #42
edhelas wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because... everything was made from de beginning to push people to go to the App Store.

The App Store didn’t even exist until the iPhone 3G. Everything was suppose to be a web app until everyone, including HN, bitched about the lack of native apps. Now here you all are 15 years later bemoaning what you have helped create.

The obvious solution is to have both. Also, HTML5 at the beginning was much less feature-rich than it is now.

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#49

Post by adestefan »

lozenge wrote: post #41
dubcanada wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I would love to agree, the general population really does not care about features like "home screen web apps". Nobody outside of HN even knows what they are. Everyone just goes on the app store and downloads random website app. Even if it is just a browser app that renders a website. Apple would have to eliminate something that people actually care about for any boycott Apple to happen.

Look at how Google pushed Chrome on its websites and people picked it up. They could do the same for web apps. What's been limiting them all this time is Apple policy. Apple policy 1- PWAs on iPhone must use Safari, Safari only has features Apple chooses to implement Apple policy 2- Add to Home Screen is hidden away Now with DMA, Google could make its own web browser, provide all their apps as "PWAs that work with Ch…

So you’d rather have Google abuse its monopoly on search to get what you want?

Re: Apple broke iPhone web apps in the EU for anticompetitive reasons – Tim Sweeney

#50

Post by lozenge »

Ezhik wrote: post #11

Let's say I want to make a little dashboard for a home server that I can view on my iPhone in full screen. If I live in the EU, how am I supposed to add it to my home screen? I can't put it on the App Store even if I wanted to - it's for a local server so it won't pass review. I can't just use a local debug build - those expire after a week or so. What can I even do here?

Open a developer account with Apple. Get your app Notarized (not the same as App Store review). List your app on an alternative app marketplace, agreeing to their terms of service. Download it from there.
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