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280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

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Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#41

Post by agent281 »

thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

At least part of what keeps people from switching to more eco-friendly transportation is the protection arms race: people buy bigger cars because they are safer for their occupants. This leads to more injuries because bigger cars do more damage. Which means people are more concerned about injuries and buy bigger cars.

This is one area where I am concerned about the impacts of electric vehicles. They weigh a lot more than ICE cars and might cause more significant injuries for pedestrians. There probably ought to be some sort of tax or fee on vehicles that scales by weight. However, that would favor ICE vehicles over EVs so it may not be popular among the people who might otherwise be interested in such things.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#42

Post by tullatulla »

Shatnerz wrote: post #5
thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

How are you defining efficiency here? Is walking really more efficient than cycling? I would put walking as the least efficient manual powered methods mentioned. Aside: I used to unicycle to work, and I have to say that it was both fantastic and much faster than walking while on a 27.5" wheel.

Well you don't need a bike for walking, so that's gotta count for something (if efficiency is defined as total energy spent per distance)

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#43

Post by kibwen »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #23
kibwen wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is part of it, but people still need to leave their house sometime, and the best solution is one where people can survive without needing to own a car at all, which is nearly impossible in most of the US. We sold our nation's soul to cars, and now we're fighting to get it back.

Yet the commute is a full ten trips a week you can eliminate. People aren’t running errands 10x a week. The clear roads and clear skies early in the pandemic showed us what this would look like if more people worked remotely.

Note that I'm not against remote work, rather I'm all for it. But programmers like us here on HN are prone to tunnel vision on this topic: most people cannot bring their work home. Nurses, lab techs, construction workers, factory workers, plumbers, electricians, all these people still need to commute, and so we need to design our cities accordingly.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#44

Post by tayo42 »

johnea wrote: post #3

I'm not really sure where in the US people live that makes them think transportation can be replaced by a bike. I live in San Diego, the climate is great, but there is no way a person can travel any farther than their neighborhood on a bike. The main impediment at this point is the outrageous price of EVs in the US. In China cheap EVs are readily available, trade policies are preventing their import into the US. Bike…

If you didn't have to commute to work, how often do you really need to leave your neighborhood though?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#45

Post by bigfudge »

rglullis wrote: post #28
k_dumez wrote: post #17

"In the United States, a staggering 60% of all car trips cover less than 10km." Being lucky enough to live in a walkable city (NYC) this is insane to me. The world is so car-brained.

[flagged]

I think it's actually just anglo countries. The UK is batshit about cars as well, and I don't think the Aussies are much better.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#46

Post by ashton314 »

thelastgallon wrote: post #2

We don't need a 4000 lb vehicle to move a ~200 lb person. In order of efficiency: (1) Walk (2) Unicycle, roller skate, scooter (no battery, very little material) (2) Bike (3) Electric bike (and all forms of newfangled electric: escooters, segways) (4) Electric motorbike or scooter (5) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric trains (6) Mass transit (can be public/private) transportation: Electric…

I would be delighted to ride a zip line to work

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#47

Post by mungoman2 »

erostrate wrote: post #31
Shatnerz wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you defining efficiency here? Is walking really more efficient than cycling? I would put walking as the least efficient manual powered methods mentioned. Aside: I used to unicycle to work, and I have to say that it was both fantastic and much faster than walking while on a 27.5" wheel.

What does a salmon have in common with a man on a bicycle? They are both Pareto-efficient. Here's a chart of cost of transport (calories/gram/km) vs weight (kg) comparing a salmon vs a bicycle vs a jet fighter etc: https://www.bike.nyc/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/efficiency-g...

Fun! But how to read the Y axis? Why does it start from 1 twice?

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#48

Post by simmanian »

I bought an ebike to complement my aging 2007 Toyota instead of replacing it outright with another car. I use the bike for most light use cases within the 10 mile radius and still lean into using my car when needed. Here are my takes on ebikes.

Pros:

- Ebikes help people punch above their weight class, allowing them to bike farther and faster

- Going uphill is much easier

- Ebikes encourage people to be more adventurous and discover local scenic routes

Cons:

- Good ebikes cost as much as my 2007 toyota

- If you drive a hub motor and you get a flat (and you will eventually), it's harder to fix it up

- They tend to be rather heavy (harder to drive without assistance), and lighter ones cost a lot of $$$

- I am worried my bike may get stolen a little more

For those interested in getting an entry level ebike and living in US, I recommend REI's gen 1.1 and 1.2 ebikes. They're 40% off(!) right now, which seems to be a rare discount for ebikes.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#49

Post by allemagne »

count wrote: post #7
johnea wrote: post #3

I'm not really sure where in the US people live that makes them think transportation can be replaced by a bike. I live in San Diego, the climate is great, but there is no way a person can travel any farther than their neighborhood on a bike. The main impediment at this point is the outrageous price of EVs in the US. In China cheap EVs are readily available, trade policies are preventing their import into the US. Bike…

To be fair, San Diego seems like it was designed specifically to be hostile to non-car travel, especially around the valleys and passes between the hills. Downtown/GasLamp are totally viable with just an e-bike (and probably over into Coronado), bus as soon as you have to leave that area, I'd agree, non-viable. I haven't worked or lived in any other city quite that brutally bad for bikes though?

A core, dense walkable and expensive area (where a bike might be viable) surrounded by miles and miles of cheaper suburban sprawl (where it's not) is how every major American city is structured. I live next to commuter rail in a mid-sized city that I try to take advantage of, but if the option of a car was completely taken off the table for me it would make so much of my life more difficult by at least an order of magnitude.

Re: 280M e-bikes and mopeds are cutting demand for oil far more than electric cars

#50

Post by NegativeLatency »

kibwen wrote: post #19

Would anyone here like to recommend (or disrecommend) any e-bike models?

Converted my own with a mid drive bafang kit off of amazon, there are plenty of guides out there and while its not the easiest of bike maintenance jobs it’s also not that hard.

The other option I considered was buying an urban arrow, yuba, tern or “harry vs larry” bakfiets style bike.

If you’re looking for a car replacement the electric Bakfiets style is absolutely amazing for carrying cargo or even a person. (I pick my wife up in it sometimes)

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