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Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

cockpit-project.org

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Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#41

Post by tanelpoder »

barosl wrote: post #36

The cool thing about this project is that as it uses systemd's socket activation, it requires no server processes at all. There is no waste of resources when Cockpit is not being used. Accessing a page is literally the same as invoking a command-line tool (and quitting it). No more, no less. What a beautiful design.

I ended up reading more about this and looks like SSHD in Ubuntu 22.10 and later also uses systemd socket activation. So there should be no sshd process(es) started until someone SSHs in!

https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/sshd-now-uses-socket-based-ac...

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#42

Post by notpushkin »

barosl wrote: post #36

The cool thing about this project is that as it uses systemd's socket activation, it requires no server processes at all. There is no waste of resources when Cockpit is not being used. Accessing a page is literally the same as invoking a command-line tool (and quitting it). No more, no less. What a beautiful design.

systemd-cgi :^)

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#43

Post by KronisLV »

TwoNineFive wrote: post #40

I'm an actual RHCE. This thread has to be some big Red Hatter click farm or something. The artificial positivity is striking. Is Red Hat threatening to pull funding for this project or something? Just weird. Cockpit is okay but it's basically Red Hat's equivalent to the Windows Server Manager tool, and I have no doubt it was directly inspired by Server Manager. It's development and improvement over the years has been…

> Like happyweasel said, it's basically webmin for Red Hat.

Seems pretty cool to me, "meet your users where they are" and all that.

I actually wonder what other options for this sort of web based management panel there are out there, maybe more DEB oriented ones.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#44

Post by minimaul »

TwoNineFive wrote: post #40

I'm an actual RHCE. This thread has to be some big Red Hatter click farm or something. The artificial positivity is striking. Is Red Hat threatening to pull funding for this project or something? Just weird. Cockpit is okay but it's basically Red Hat's equivalent to the Windows Server Manager tool, and I have no doubt it was directly inspired by Server Manager. It's development and improvement over the years has been…

It's a very useful tool to manage libvirt + KVM remotely without trawling through poorly documented XML, it's accessible from any platform - even an iPad, and it requires next to no setup (basically install the package and add a cert and you're done).

I consider these big pluses, I use Cockpit on Debian on my servers that run VMs rather than something like Proxmox, because 1. it's much less invasive, 2. the machines tend to run other things too, like docker containers.

Have been using it for this since ~2019.

The stats views are useful too, but I wouldn't install it for that on it's own.

edit: and honestly, there's not another good (maintained!) option that fits the niche of 'let me create libvirt VMs from a web browser on a single machine without taking over my whole system'.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#45

Post by Kiro »

TwoNineFive wrote: post #40

I'm an actual RHCE. This thread has to be some big Red Hatter click farm or something. The artificial positivity is striking. Is Red Hat threatening to pull funding for this project or something? Just weird. Cockpit is okay but it's basically Red Hat's equivalent to the Windows Server Manager tool, and I have no doubt it was directly inspired by Server Manager. It's development and improvement over the years has been…

> Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, brigading, foreign agents, and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#46

Post by smetj »

tanelpoder wrote: post #41
barosl wrote: post #36

The cool thing about this project is that as it uses systemd's socket activation, it requires no server processes at all. There is no waste of resources when Cockpit is not being used. Accessing a page is literally the same as invoking a command-line tool (and quitting it). No more, no less. What a beautiful design.

I ended up reading more about this and looks like SSHD in Ubuntu 22.10 and later also uses systemd socket activation. So there should be no sshd process(es) started until someone SSHs in! https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/sshd-now-uses-socket-based-ac...

Certainly for SSH I find this a bad idea. If you need to ssh into a troubled machine then it might very well be it cannot be started.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#47

Post by Karrot_Kream »

TwoNineFive wrote: post #40

I'm an actual RHCE. This thread has to be some big Red Hatter click farm or something. The artificial positivity is striking. Is Red Hat threatening to pull funding for this project or something? Just weird. Cockpit is okay but it's basically Red Hat's equivalent to the Windows Server Manager tool, and I have no doubt it was directly inspired by Server Manager. It's development and improvement over the years has been…

> Nobody who is comfortable with an ssh session uses Cockpit

> It's for people who want to point and click, can't do a bash for/while loop, don't understand pipe chaining commands, and don't like using vim.

Lol! Are you ready to deploy an ssh-capable terminal emulator at all times? What's wrong with making simple tasks simple?

I run multiple Raspberry Pi cameras (with nicer camera modules) to watch the pets if the family travels. The RTSP camera streams run in a systemd unit on their boxes. I have some healthchecks to make sure packets are being streamed as other systemd units. Each camera gets its own private IP on a ZeroTier network I manage. Since copilot is only run on demand, it's a no brainer to have around for administration.

Sometimes one of the cameras just starts streaming out blank frames. I'd much rather manage this through a copilot web interface on my phone when I'm on vacation than find a keyboard to use SSH with and restart the camera stream unit. I mean sure, I could write a healthcheck which checks whether blank frames are being emitted, but it's just so much easier to restart it via copilot than it is to write that healthcheck and it only ever happens a few times a year. Shrug.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#48

Post by arghwhat »

barosl wrote: post #36

The cool thing about this project is that as it uses systemd's socket activation, it requires no server processes at all. There is no waste of resources when Cockpit is not being used. Accessing a page is literally the same as invoking a command-line tool (and quitting it). No more, no less. What a beautiful design.

To be fair, we've had this since BSD4.3 (1986) through inetd - which worked slightly differently, but same overall idea. Once popular, it fell out of fashion because... Well, there isn't really any reason for it.

A good server process is idle when nothing is happening, and should be using miniscule real memory that should be easy to swap out. If the server in question uses significant memory for your use-case, you also don't want it starting on demand and triggering sporadic memory pressure.

It does make it easier to avoid blocking on service start in early boot though, which is a common cause of poor boot performance.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#49

Post by arghwhat »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #47
TwoNineFive wrote: post #40

I'm an actual RHCE. This thread has to be some big Red Hatter click farm or something. The artificial positivity is striking. Is Red Hat threatening to pull funding for this project or something? Just weird. Cockpit is okay but it's basically Red Hat's equivalent to the Windows Server Manager tool, and I have no doubt it was directly inspired by Server Manager. It's development and improvement over the years has been…

> Nobody who is comfortable with an ssh session uses Cockpit > It's for people who want to point and click, can't do a bash for/while loop, don't understand pipe chaining commands, and don't like using vim. Lol! Are you ready to deploy an ssh-capable terminal emulator at all times? What's wrong with making simple tasks simple? I run multiple Raspberry Pi cameras (with nicer camera modules) to watch the pets if the fa…

> Lol! Are you ready to deploy an ssh-capable terminal emulator at all times?

What terminal emulator isn't ssh-capable? Where would you not be able to open a terminal emulator? I am so confused.

> What's wrong with making simple tasks simple?

The limited tasks exposed by cockpit are also simple (or depending on the individual, simpler) in a terminal, but if you want a point-and-click UI for just a few things, go ahead.

That cockpit is very limited and seemingly has no future does not mean you can't like what it does now. Just might be worth considering if there are better-supported alternatives.

Re: Cockpit: Web-based graphical interface for servers

#50

Post by squarefoot »

M95D wrote: post #38

I just looked at the screnshots and it seems to me that OpenWrt does it better. A lot better.

Last time I had to use OpenWRT, I was literally pulling my hair because of how convoluted was the interface compared to say m0n0wall, *Sense, FreeNAS, and other similar firewall/NAS/services dedicated web interfaces. It was some years ago, hopefully it was improved since.
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