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Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

finance.yahoo.com

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Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#41

Post by Hamuko »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #23
Bilal_io wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dorsey is a big Bitcoin fan, so that’s the kind of utility he appreciates. This sounds disingenuous. Not every fan of Bitcoin supports fraud, drug trafficking.. etc. The dollar is used for such bad activities, should we label everyone that loves the dollar as a supporter of fraud and drugs?

I would be interested in the percentage of 1. Bitcoin (crypto) users who (only) have BC because they hate fiat money 2. Users who have BC because they need it for illegal gains 3. Opportunistic investors 4. Web3ers I have the unsubstantiated feeling that 1 is overstated.

Category 1 was probably predominant during the early days of Bitcoin, so the old hands probably still hold onto to that notion.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#42

Post by jhugo »

nikanj wrote: post #32
jahnu wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they haven't learned enough from 2008. I think it looks like they learned a lot! I.e. make sure you get too big to fail.

Credit Suisse was too big to fail just a month ago

And indeed the government forced a merger with UBS, reaffirming that they were too big to fail.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#43

Post by Nursie »

throw239849234 wrote: post #31
KingOfCoders wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in the percentage of 1. Bitcoin (crypto) users who (only) have BC because they hate fiat money 2. Users who have BC because they need it for illegal gains 3. Opportunistic investors 4. Web3ers I have the unsubstantiated feeling that 1 is overstated.

5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons This category is way larger than people in well-banked Western circles realise. Bitcoin (crypto) is one of the easiest ways for people affected by capital controls or sanctions (on the financial institutions they use, or the country they were unlucky enough to be born in) to freely move their (legally earned, and taxed) money across borders. Since o…

Is sanctions-evasion a good thing?

Russia is currently fighting a war of aggression, applying controls on the flow of money in or out of there is one way in which the war machine can be starved.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#44

Post by jhugo »

mschuster91 wrote: post #14
benjaminwootton wrote: post #10

“ Initial Disclosure: After extensive research, we have taken a short position in shares of Block, Inc. (NYSE: SQ). This report represents our opinion, and we encourage every reader to do their own due diligence. Please see our full disclaimer at the bottom of the report.” I’m surprised that it’s legal to short sell then go on the attack. If it is, imagine having the cojones to do that and then go live with this repo…

It actually is legal and the way how Hindenburg Research (and other popular/infamous shortsellers) make money: Research and expose fraud to hold companies accountable, with a (massive) financial stake to be correct in the research. Personally, I used to be quite antagonistic to shortsellers, but at least the ones holding onto the principles of journalistic integrity and good research provide good value to society. Ju…

> Personally, I used to be quite antagonistic to shortsellers, but at least the ones holding onto the principles of journalistic integrity and good research provide good value to society. Just look at Wirecard.

Which ones don't provide value to society, and how do they differ from shills with a long position?

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#45

Post by raverbashing »

throw239849234 wrote: post #31
KingOfCoders wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be interested in the percentage of 1. Bitcoin (crypto) users who (only) have BC because they hate fiat money 2. Users who have BC because they need it for illegal gains 3. Opportunistic investors 4. Web3ers I have the unsubstantiated feeling that 1 is overstated.

5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons This category is way larger than people in well-banked Western circles realise. Bitcoin (crypto) is one of the easiest ways for people affected by capital controls or sanctions (on the financial institutions they use, or the country they were unlucky enough to be born in) to freely move their (legally earned, and taxed) money across borders. Since o…

> 5. People for whom fiat money is impractical for one or more reasons

Did the bitcoiners forget about paper bills?

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#46

Post by peyton »

malermeister wrote: post #39
qeternity wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find these takes to be so disingenuous. The dollar is used in this manner in spite of legal and regulatory efforts. Bitcoin is used in this manner bc it was designed explicitly to be immune to these efforts. I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. But at least own that view and the implications, instead of all of this fiat whataboutism.

> I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. Why? That is just another way of saying moneyed interests should be above the rule of law. What could possibly be respectable about a view this odious?

I don’t think Chase freezing your account and refusing to tell you why counts as rule of law. I don’t see what’s so odious about coming up with a solution to move money that doesn’t involve financial institutions.

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#47

Post by sam_goody »

qeternity wrote: post #35
Bilal_io wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dorsey is a big Bitcoin fan, so that’s the kind of utility he appreciates. This sounds disingenuous. Not every fan of Bitcoin supports fraud, drug trafficking.. etc. The dollar is used for such bad activities, should we label everyone that loves the dollar as a supporter of fraud and drugs?

I find these takes to be so disingenuous. The dollar is used in this manner in spite of legal and regulatory efforts. Bitcoin is used in this manner bc it was designed explicitly to be immune to these efforts. I respect people who believe money should be uncensorable. But at least own that view and the implications, instead of all of this fiat whataboutism.

I have no problem saying that cash should be uncesorable, as far as that goes.

But it as limits built in - it has to physically transfer hands, true anonymity is difficult, and is practically limited in its scale (moving and then using $1,000,000 in cash is logistically less practical than using a wire transfer).

Ie. it is mighty difficult to use cash for ransomware attacks, and it is not that simple to get paid in cash for a kidnapping (eg. the case of the guys who kidnapped a schoolbus, but while working out how to collect their ransom, the kids escaped.)

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#48

Post by regulators »

Venmo has massive fraud too. I knew drug dealers in 2017 in San Francisco who openly sold marijuana, cocaine and other drugs via Venmo. Tens of thousands in transactions every 2-months.

Hindenburg criticized the ability for a user to get a debit card by mail in any name but that is a form of KYC. It is true many companies including PayPal don’t force you to provide your social security number. But the user can still be tracked.

I have never provided my social security number or face or ID to Venmo, PayPal or Cash App.

And the name I use on all those accounts is not my legal name. I do pay my taxes, I don’t commit crimes and it’s the name I use in real life and on social media.

This is more an attack on privacy rights and easy access to financial services. If fraud happens, law enforcement should prosecute. Don’t punish the lawful consumer.

Hindenburg’s just a more sophisticated scammer who apparently made $5 million off this trade-

https://twitter.com/unusual_whales/status/163897860486766592...

Re: Block loses 20% of value as Hindenburg Research alleges fraud

#50

Post by sam_goody »

In yesterday's thread about Hindenburg's post[1], there were several who claimed that Square rounds down to the nearest penny when paying their customers, and keeps the difference, and this amounts to millions. This both for their shares and their payments.

I do not know if that is fraud, but if so, Hindenburg should pay attention.

BTW, this was done in Superman, and used to build an [evil] AGI. Of course, that is just science fiction. Just to be sure though, is Square a partner in OpenAI?

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35273782

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