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Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

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Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#41

Post by InTheArena »

debacle wrote: post #27
upsidesinclude wrote: post #22

This comment section looks ridiculous. If the purpose of propoganda stories is to paint the Russians as untrustworthy to the Western world (hint: that is the purpose!) then it is surely effective.

Not sure why you are being downmodded, there's no need for "Russian" to be in the title here. This is a very common trope from alt-right media. If the culprit is ever black, Muslim, or an immigrant, they will absolutely let you know in the headline.

There have been 5 major incidents at the ISS since 2018 that could have led to loss of the station if it were caught later. One of which was only ameliorated by a module running out of fuel.

The problem here appears to be that the quality standards of roscosmos is in steep decline.

This is why Russia is in the title.

Now if you want to draw the linkage between the Ukraine war and regressions to their space program, the evidence is certainly there, but I think this story stands quite well on its own.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#42

Post by bandyaboot »

latchkey wrote: post #17
nordsieck wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we at the point we should start suspecting sabotage? What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft? The only real outcomes would be either having to launch an additional spacecraft to get their people back or suffering the indignity of the US bringing their people back on a US vehicle. If they don't want to be there, it'd be pretty easy to cite something about…

> What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft? Some people believe the Nord pipeline blowup was self-sabotage. Update: I did not say I believe this myself. I'm just using this as a counter argument to say that the reasons might not be obvious at first glance and people tend to believe all sorts of things.

I don’t know if you guys are being deliberately obtuse with stuff or what, but the Nordstream pipeline can deliver gas to Germany—that’s it. If circumstances change such that Russia no longer wants to deliver gas to Germany, the pipeline has no value to them. It doesn’t matter that it’s theirs. It’s not like they can use it for something else.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#43

Post by LarryMullins »

hutzlibu wrote: post #9
nordsieck wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are we at the point we should start suspecting sabotage? What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft? The only real outcomes would be either having to launch an additional spacecraft to get their people back or suffering the indignity of the US bringing their people back on a US vehicle. If they don't want to be there, it'd be pretty easy to cite something about…

Well, sabotage could also have been done by the other side, to point out the russian incompetence and drive them out even earlier, but the risk/reward does not make this likely.

Sabotage might also be performed by a disgruntled / disturbed worker, not working for either 'side'.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#44

Post by bombolo »

nordsieck wrote: post #6
openplatypus wrote: post #3

Are we at the point we should start suspecting sabotage? Or is this just usual Russian incompetence? This maybe news cycle bias, but since the Ukraine war, and threat of Russian pulling out of ISS program, these malfunctions have been more visible. Is anyone tracking these and similar incidents publicly?

> Are we at the point we should start suspecting sabotage? What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft? The only real outcomes would be either having to launch an additional spacecraft to get their people back or suffering the indignity of the US bringing their people back on a US vehicle. If they don't want to be there, it'd be pretty easy to cite something about…

> What possible reason would the Russians have to sabotage their own side of their won space craft?

Same reason why they blew up their own pipeline (they didn't but our propaganda must paint them as complete morons).

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#45

Post by vbezhenar »

braymundo wrote: post #33
upsidesinclude wrote: post #22

This comment section looks ridiculous. If the purpose of propoganda stories is to paint the Russians as untrustworthy to the Western world (hint: that is the purpose!) then it is surely effective.

[flagged]

West stoles Russia money and now Russia is untrustworthy. Right. No. You broke your own "private property is holy right" dogma. Russia is not breaking its obligations. It even pays Ukraine for gas transfer right now, an act which many Russian people find weird and questionable.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#46

Post by dmurray »

khuey wrote: post #14
nordsieck wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, sabotage could also have been done by the other side, to point out the russian incompetence and drive them out even earlier, but the risk/reward does not make this likely. 1. NASA wants Russia to maintain a presence on the ISS. Many of the necessary functions for operating the ISS are spread across both the US (international) and Russian sides. If the Russians left, that would dramatically complicate operatio…

4. The Soyuz that had the first coolant leak had an American astronaut on board. Why would the US risk its own people?

That seems like the weakest argument against it. If we're talking about the kind of shadowy secret agents who will sabotage a $150 billion project (most of which was paid by their own side) as a manoeuvre in a complicated geopolitical game, surely they're not above sacrificing a few innocent lives for it.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#47

Post by rdl »

bombolo wrote: post #40
rdl wrote: post #31

Tangentially: What purpose does ISS serve today? It cost $150 billion to get to this point, but is it doing anything which justifies the operating and maintenance costs? vs. other uses of the money. On Earth, direct replacement with new in-orbit infrastructure/new station, or other space operations.

Science? Must every human endeavour generate profit?

It doesn't have to generate profit, but it does need to generate more science/better science than the next best alternative way to spend the money. (It's presumably not optimized solely for science, but also engineering and politics, both domestic and international, but it doesn't seem to be the most efficient way to accomplish what it accomplishes.)

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#48

Post by Rebelgecko »

throwanem wrote: post #36
rdl wrote: post #31

Tangentially: What purpose does ISS serve today? It cost $150 billion to get to this point, but is it doing anything which justifies the operating and maintenance costs? vs. other uses of the money. On Earth, direct replacement with new in-orbit infrastructure/new station, or other space operations.

It's there to give the Space Shuttle program a reason to exist.

But the space shuttle program ended a decade ago?

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#49

Post by InTheArena »

rdl wrote: post #31

Tangentially: What purpose does ISS serve today? It cost $150 billion to get to this point, but is it doing anything which justifies the operating and maintenance costs? vs. other uses of the money. On Earth, direct replacement with new in-orbit infrastructure/new station, or other space operations.

The purpose was to keep the Russian rocket program alive and out of the hands of the Iranians, Koreans and other bad actors. It was also a PR effort where the west could strongly subsidize other countries for international harmony and goodwill.

Given the current state of Russia and Iran, it failed.

But ironically it is now doing good science.

I’m all in favor of letting the Russians go their own way at this point.

Re: Another Russian spacecraft at ISS has a coolant leak

#50

Post by fsh »

LarryMullins wrote: post #37
abracadaniel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t that long ago they drilled a hole in a Soyuz, then patched it with epoxy and sent it up anyway, only for the epoxy to come out and cause a leak.

As far as I can tell, the evidence for the hole being drilled then epoxied on Earth amounts to nobody wanting to believe the alternative (that it was drilled while in orbit.) Here is the hole. Personally, I don't see any trace of epoxy in or around this hole: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Hole_in_... (To be clear, it's the small hole, not the big one next to it. The small hole next to the paint…

The epoxy was applied on the outside and was later covered by insulation. Here is a picture from the EVA where they cut away the insulation and located it: https://i.insider.com/5c112efc4a8213310205a17b
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