The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra • Hacker News Board

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#41

Post by shkkmo » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

tarentel wrote: post #21

shkkmo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope it doesn't cause other brands to adopt the "Dive Computer As A Service" model. I like buying products that I actually own. I feel like pressure to push the cost of reliable dive computers down will do more to democratize diving than an app for an expensive smart watch.

Although I am not the biggest fan of subscription models I am not sure pushing the cost down of dive computers will help democratize diving. I can't imagine it's a very cheap hobby to begin with. Also, a quick glance, dive computers seem to be $400+, many are $1000+. The watch in question is $800 and I feel like people who are into diving aren't the type of people who find an $800 prohibitively expensive.

You can definitely get a solid dive computer for under $400, and the $1000+ are going to have features that won't be present on the Apple Watch Ultra, like air integration, lower depth ratings, etc.

Paying other people to take you diving can get pretty expensive quickly, but the dive professionals themselves generally do not make a lot of money. It is one of those things that people do professionally because they love it, not because it pays well. (Speaking only about recreational diving here, industrial diving is a whole different beast.)

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#42

Post by isitmadeofglass » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

ashtonbaker wrote: post #24

9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the app developer is a manufacturer of dive computers (including a watch), it’s likely to be relatively trustworthy. Nonetheless, from the press release: “Always follow diving protocols and dive with a companion and have a secondary device.”

That sounds like overkill CYA from the legal department. Diving with two computers is not standard protocol in no-decompression recreational diving. It is in technical diving. But if you're in open water, and within no-deco limits, if your computer fails, you can always just end the dive.

As I recall PADI recommendations is to have a backup plan equivalent to the primary plan. Which often is easiest with redundant devices and each buddy having the same or similar computer.

I think it’s very much not recommended to have going computerless as a backup. And the idea that you are safe to do so because your “within no-deco limits” is potentially dangerous, as your relying on the computer to tell you if you are still within that limit.

Many people go quite close to the limit. Personally I stay far away from them, but safety recommendations are the same for everyone.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#43

Post by apetresc » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

foxandmouse wrote: post #5

This reminds me of Linus Torvalds Subsurface project: https://subsurface-divelog.org/ Unfortunately I don't have enough domain knowledge to do a comparison.

I have 0 domain knowledge as well, but it's pretty clear that no "comparison" can be made considering that Subsurface is a visualizer of logs from a dive computer, and Oceanic+ turns an Apple Watch into a dive computer.

I guess it's possible that Subsurface might add support for visualizing logs from Oceanic+.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#44

Post by noelherrick » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:13 PM UTC

isitmadeofglass wrote: post #16

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #7

That is cool. I assume that it has been tested and certified. Dive computers are critical safety gear. You really don't want them crashing on you.

Crashing would be the least of the worries in my opinion. If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking. My major worry would be bad sensor readings or software errors leading it to provide bad instructions on how fast you can surface, or how long you need to do decompression stops. Depending on the dive, it’s a situation where differences in the displayed n…

This is an excellent point, and one that I hadn't thought of. I've seen dive computer failure but never erroneous readings.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#45

Post by jitl » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:15 PM UTC

bitwrangler wrote: post #20

jupp0r wrote: post #6

Any HN scuba divers here that would use this as their only dive computer on a dive? I'm not a scuba diver myself but do engage in other adventure sports where reliable equipment can make the difference between a great trip and disaster. I'd be very reluctant to trust my life or health to this.

it says it's rated to 40 meters, which is good for most recreational diving. This would not apply for deeper dives. I'm curious to see what they have for using it with diver communication and collaboration. If one diver sees something of interest, they can easily notify other divers. I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? The haptic vibration would be useful to notify about reaching maximum bottom ti…

Bluetooth doesn’t work underwater. Water loves to absorb 2.4ghz signals. I dive with both my iPhone and Apple Watch Ultra and they can’t communicate underwater unless they’re actually touching.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#46

Post by ashtonbaker » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

lolsoftware wrote: post #31

ashtonbaker wrote: post #17

I think this looks amazing for warm-water vacation divers - typically they are stuck with rental equipment, which usually means a cheap, dated computer on a bulky console. Having a well-designed UI will definitely improve these divers safety - the last boat dive I went on, an experienced diver blew past no-deco limits because he didn't understand his unfamiliar rental computer. That being said, I can't personally ima…

Slight clarification: the Apple Watch Ultra has a water resistance rating of 100m. The Oceanic+ app has a 130ft/40m limit because that's the recreational diving limit. [1]: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP879?viewlocale=en_IN&locale=e... .

Oh, cool! It looks like that's the limit of Apple's Depth app, as well, which is what I found when I searched, and assumed it was the limit of the watch.

Well that's definitely better - I wonder what happens when you go under 130 feet, though. A dedicated dive computer would at least provide accurate information, rather than throwing you to the wolves because you exceeded some legal limit.

Also on the plus side, some of the existing air pressure transmitters use bluetooth, so if they could get that working, they'd actually be one of the cheapest air-integrated computers on the market.

(edit: they do not use bluetooth, they use low-frequency radio ~38khz)

I think I'll stick with my Shearwater Peregrine though, pros and cons considered.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#47

Post by shkkmo » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

isitmadeofglass wrote: post #16

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #7

That is cool. I assume that it has been tested and certified. Dive computers are critical safety gear. You really don't want them crashing on you.

Crashing would be the least of the worries in my opinion. If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking. My major worry would be bad sensor readings or software errors leading it to provide bad instructions on how fast you can surface, or how long you need to do decompression stops. Depending on the dive, it’s a situation where differences in the displayed n…

> If it crashes, you as a diver know what to do and it’s no different from any other dive computer breaking.

Ideally, yes. However, a crash significantly increases the chances of diver error leading to an incident. Diving without a computer requires more careful adherence to a dive plan. If you lose your dive computer and haven't been carefully following a preset plan, you should generally start the process of surfacing immediately and do so with decompression stops that have as large a margin for error as feasible and then stop diving for the day (edit: or if you've been good at staying with your buddy, you use their computer while still adding a healthy margin for error).

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#48

Post by jitl » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

chson wrote: post #34

sfusato wrote: post #3

This is great for the scuba community as it will cause other brands to innovate and most importantly bring diving to a wider audience which will help the sport as a whole which will hopefully raise awareness about endangered underwater ecosystems in the long-run.

Garmin and Suunto already have dive computers with full smart watch capabilities. Most importantly without a subscription model to use the features.

Those are like $1200 though; same price as Apple Watch Ultra with 5 years of scuba subscription; and have substantially worse displays, ergonomics, and smart watch UX. I went diving with a friend wearing a Suunto smart dive computer, and he couldn’t figure out how to silence the smart watch notifications because the UX was poor; I’ll never have that kind of issue with Apple device.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#49

Post by killerdhmo » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

ashtonbaker wrote: post #46

lolsoftware wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slight clarification: the Apple Watch Ultra has a water resistance rating of 100m. The Oceanic+ app has a 130ft/40m limit because that's the recreational diving limit. [1]: https://support.apple.com/kb/SP879?viewlocale=en_IN&locale=e... .

Oh, cool! It looks like that's the limit of Apple's Depth app, as well, which is what I found when I searched, and assumed it was the limit of the watch. Well that's definitely better - I wonder what happens when you go under 130 feet, though. A dedicated dive computer would at least provide accurate information, rather than throwing you to the wolves because you exceeded some legal limit. Also on the plus side, some…

I like that you assume it's going to shit the bed vs. assuming that they planned for it, given the hardware supports it.

Re: The Oceanic+ app comes to Apple Watch Ultra

#50

Post by mschuster91 » Mon, Nov 28, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

ashtonbaker wrote: post #17

I think this looks amazing for warm-water vacation divers - typically they are stuck with rental equipment, which usually means a cheap, dated computer on a bulky console. Having a well-designed UI will definitely improve these divers safety - the last boat dive I went on, an experienced diver blew past no-deco limits because he didn't understand his unfamiliar rental computer. That being said, I can't personally ima…

> That being said, I can't personally imagine taking the Apple Watch Ultra to, say, 80-90 feet if it's only rated to 130. It's just too expensive.

I get the feeling of it being too expensive - but technically? If anything is to be expected from Apple, it is to under-promise on advertised specifications, and at least here in Europe, under consumer protection laws I can hold Apple accountable for not delivering upon their spec [1]. The hardest thing with anything underwater is pressure differential anyway - old analog watches have a lot of air inside which is compressible, which means you need strong seals and construction to avoid the pressure differential to simply crack the case. A modern digital watch however? Space is scarce so every cubic millimetre is packed with solid incompressible materials, making it way easier to withstand higher pressure.

[1] Actually had to do that with a CAT phone many years back when I worked in construction, a simple fall on a floor slab broke the screen. I made a backup (back then, that was actually feasible because rooting was easy, another personal gripe I have with recent Android), went up to the retailer and had it shipped in - a week later I had a brand new device and a written apology that the product was not up to spec.