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TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

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Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#41

Post by pb7 »

throwaway4good wrote: post #38
encoderer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to apply the China factor. Shareholders can’t truly own the companies, can’t control the boards, can’t predict the future regulatory environment. It doesn’t make these companies worthless but it is a real markdown.

This is a bunch of non-sense. ByteDance has a number of US investors and an international board. Their ideal exit strategy for TikTok is to have it spun off and IPOed on US exchanges.

At the end of the day, ByteDance can't do anything that clashes with the wishes of the CCP and that is a risk. If it were to attempt to IPO on US exchanges, it would be subject to even more scrutiny.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#42

Post by cheriot »

satao wrote: post #21
pb7 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is controlled by an authoritarian government, the others are private (publicly traded) corporations in a democratic country.

as someone living outside the US I can tell you that to us you're all the same.

Ironically, there's laws restricting US Gov access to data in the US, but no such restrictions on hacking foreign networks.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#43

Post by ravenstine »

AlexandrB wrote: post #12
ravenstine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one said they aren't . Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? China being an adversary should have nothing to do with it? If we can't point out such a…

I think all of these apps behave deplorably. But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. The solutions offered also often target TikTok specifically - like banning TikTok in the US, or placing some kind of restrictions on how TikTok can operate. Why is the solution not to make broad data collection illegal? Edit: > So should no one speak out against conc…

> But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same.

It comes down to what you believe is the lesser of two evil systems of governance. I will not hesitate to criticize the United States, NATO, the central banks, or the IMF, and I have many problems with them; I would still prefer to live under their system as opposed to the kind of world that China proposes. I live in the United States, and to an extent I want the United States to remain stable. Why should I not be concerned that an adversary in both policy and philosophy gets to have as much influence as TikTok over the minds of millions of Americans?

The only way I could see viewing US tech and China tech as equal is if one has no connection to the soil on which they stand, or perhaps if they live outside those two systems. I don't live outside of those systems. I live in the United States. I don't think the future proposed by the United States or any of its tech companies is as bad as what China proposes to bring to the world.

> one key difference is that Facebook, Google, and others are still siphoning up people's data today.

Again, that is a point that no one is disputing. And why emphasize today? As far as I am aware, TikTok doesn't plan to mine data. It already does. Regardless, I can't see how it's defensible to allow an adversary that much influence over our psychology. It's one thing for us to essentially cause our own problems, but it's another to invite problems from nations that would be thrilled for the United States to either be under its complete control or not exist at all.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#45

Post by npalli »

TikTok’s emergence “was just something that was unimaginable,” Snap Inc. SNAP 1.65%▲ Chief Executive Evan Spiegel said last month, as part of an announcement that his company would be slashing jobs. “No startup could afford to invest billions and billions and billions of dollars in user acquisition like that around the world.”

The report shows a company rapidly increasing its revenues, accumulating a massive war chest of cash and other investments, but with net results weighed down by tens of billions of dollars in unrealized market losses on convertible securities. Largely because of the accounting treatment of those securities, ByteDance’s net loss widened by more than 87% to $84.9 billion in 2021, according to the report.

Despite the rising expenses, ByteDance has managed to increase its cash and cash equivalents, which sat at $42.6 billion at the end of March, up from $34.1 billion at the end of 2021. Its total assets were at $74 billion in March, up from $64.3 billion in December.

Capitalism with Chinese characteristics.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#46

Post by encoderer »

throwaway4good wrote: post #38
encoderer wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to apply the China factor. Shareholders can’t truly own the companies, can’t control the boards, can’t predict the future regulatory environment. It doesn’t make these companies worthless but it is a real markdown.

This is a bunch of non-sense. ByteDance has a number of US investors and an international board. Their ideal exit strategy for TikTok is to have it spun off and IPOed on US exchanges.

Chinese stocks do not IPO like that. They create a special shell company that is entitled to the profits of the company, and they ipo that shell.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#47

Post by dylan604 »

pb7 wrote: post #41
throwaway4good wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bunch of non-sense. ByteDance has a number of US investors and an international board. Their ideal exit strategy for TikTok is to have it spun off and IPOed on US exchanges.

At the end of the day, ByteDance can't do anything that clashes with the wishes of the CCP and that is a risk. If it were to attempt to IPO on US exchanges, it would be subject to even more scrutiny.

Yes, what happens to US investment if the CCP steps and and takes over? Why would the CCP refund US investment? Investments come with risk and investing in Chinese companies have this extra bit of risk. The investors can cry about it, but they should have known it as a possible outcome for that investment.

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#48

Post by dylan604 »

pb7 wrote: post #32
anm89 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As is your opinion that it isn't

I didn't claim to speak for billions of people.

"You don't speak for the ~7.7B people not in the US."

vs

"You don't speak for me"

One of those comments is speaking for a lot more people

Re: TikTok Parent ByteDance Sees Losses Swell in Push for Growth

#50

Post by monocasa »

pb7 wrote: post #26
angio wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they took part in illegal surveillance programmes in the past.

>illegal Exactly. What's illegal here is perfectly fine in China. Let's not equate the two. US government may get data from US companies but at least it takes a warrant. Chinese government straight up owns the servers.

Did anyone have any consequences for the illegal behavior, including perjuring themselves before Congress regarding the matter?

Then why would they stop after it was declared illegal?

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