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Build your own web framework

vercel.com

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Re: Build your own web framework

#41

Post by bilater »

sebmellen wrote: post #26
koluna wrote: post #13

The more I see these announcements, the more I wonder - what is the appeal of something like Vercel and the likes? On the surface it seems like AWS/GCP/Azure/whichever big cloud provider can replicate literally everything they build within their infrastructure quite easily. Why host your core infra in a BigCo cloud and then the site on Vercel?

The edge network of a Vercel/Netlify is very hard to replicate in cloud as a small startup.

And if you are spending your time and resources trying to replicate it instead of building your core product you're an idiot/forever software engineer clueless about product.

Re: Build your own web framework

#42

Post by bdcravens »

moojd wrote: post #25
aliqot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until now I had not found an eloquent way to express that emotion, but you come close. Somewhere around the time node got very popular, I started to notice a lot of impeccably branded (is that the right word? trendy maybe?) websites with tutorials that used all the right buzzwords to get me interested. Once I'd step through the content, it'd be very low quality. Despite the smooth lines and round edges, a lot of them…

I am optimistic though. We are still in the early days of server-side javascript. It took 20 years for the greater php community to coalesce around a handful of quality libraries, frameworks, and solutions to things like user management instead of everyone rolling their own or using things like '$_GET["pass"] == "foo"' they they grabbed from a google search. Node is barely over a decade old. We are already seeing pat…

Many frameworks or languages were fairly well developed by a decade's time. Node is 13 years old; compare it to Rails circa 2018.

I don't think PHP makes for a great comparison, because the web ecosystem was still growing. Node was birthed in the age of Github, social media, Stack Overflow, and Google. PHP was released in 1995, when search engines were still stuck in their infancy and only a small percentage of the world was even using the WWW. 20 years in PHP's time is like maybe 5 years from 2009.

Re: Build your own web framework

#43

Post by siddontang »

As a back-end engineer focusing on distributed database, I nearly have no knowledge of web development. I rarely write JS, can't tune CSS, etc.

But when I met Next.js and Vercel, I found that they are very friendly to beginners. I can build the demos on the web, more beautiful and intuitive (Previously, I had only to build demo on the console).

Re: Build your own web framework

#44

Post by numinoid »

DanHulton wrote: post #16
moojd wrote: post #5

This is a nice overview of modern front-end development but I'm constantly disappointed with what 'web framework' means in node-land. None of these things are strictly necessary when building a web app but authz/authn, user management, databases, server-side logic vs client-side logic, are pretty much always needed. When I see the phrase 'web framework' these are the things I am interested in seeing and they all seem…

This is largely why I built Nodewood [1]. Every time I wanted to start a new project, almost always a SaaS idea, I'd skip over the "boring stuff" like building user management, subscription management, teams, admin, all that, to get to the meat of the business logic, to make sure I had a valid idea. But I still needed all that stuff eventually, so I'd have to lose time later building it all in! So I decided to just b…

Just an FYI, your styling doesn't seem to be responsive on an iPhone X

Re: Build your own web framework

#45

Post by begueradj »

tofuahdude wrote: post #8
moojd wrote: post #5

This is a nice overview of modern front-end development but I'm constantly disappointed with what 'web framework' means in node-land. None of these things are strictly necessary when building a web app but authz/authn, user management, databases, server-side logic vs client-side logic, are pretty much always needed. When I see the phrase 'web framework' these are the things I am interested in seeing and they all seem…

Its pretty hard to trust a lot of the eng content on the web right now; so much blogspam, self promo stuff from frankly underqualified people who are trying to build up a profile to get hired. Somehow I still don't feel that way about StackOverflow. Google and random results though... yikes.

Maybe that's the fault of those "who know" but don't write and contribute online ?

Re: Build your own web framework

#46

Post by jjnoakes »

begueradj wrote: post #45
tofuahdude wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its pretty hard to trust a lot of the eng content on the web right now; so much blogspam, self promo stuff from frankly underqualified people who are trying to build up a profile to get hired. Somehow I still don't feel that way about StackOverflow. Google and random results though... yikes.

Maybe that's the fault of those "who know" but don't write and contribute online ?

I don't think so. If you know where to look then good content is available, but it doesn't get as widely shared because it isn't as interesting to as many people.

Re: Build your own web framework

#47

Post by jjnoakes »

henning wrote: post #19

This is one of the stupidest, most circuitous ways to get a simple application up and running since the days of the J2EE Pet Shop example.

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't, but your comment would be a lot more useful to the discussion if you pointed out specific issues and/or ways of doing things differently that you think are better, and why.

Re: Build your own web framework

#48

Post by bdcravens »

bdcravens wrote: post #42
moojd wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am optimistic though. We are still in the early days of server-side javascript. It took 20 years for the greater php community to coalesce around a handful of quality libraries, frameworks, and solutions to things like user management instead of everyone rolling their own or using things like '$_GET["pass"] == "foo"' they they grabbed from a google search. Node is barely over a decade old. We are already seeing pat…

Many frameworks or languages were fairly well developed by a decade's time. Node is 13 years old; compare it to Rails circa 2018. I don't think PHP makes for a great comparison, because the web ecosystem was still growing. Node was birthed in the age of Github, social media, Stack Overflow, and Google. PHP was released in 1995, when search engines were still stuck in their infancy and only a small percentage of the w…

Another point about PHP: Wordpress, the largest deployed PHP app, was released in 2003, PHP's 8 year mark.

Re: Build your own web framework

#49

Post by CSSer »

leerob wrote: post #14
upupandup wrote: post #4

not sure how this differs with AWS, you can do more at less cost than Vercel

AWS offers a set of primitives, not frameworks. These low-level primitives can be combined to build anything you want. Vercel's Build Output API[1] is a level of abstraction higher. Consider Image Optimization. In this post, there's a `/_vercel/image` URL made available to send an image and return it compressed with a format like `.webp`, if possible based on the browser. With AWS, this would be a combination of S3 (…

Or you could use AWS Amplify.

Re: Build your own web framework

#50

Post by jacobsimon »

moojd wrote: post #5

This is a nice overview of modern front-end development but I'm constantly disappointed with what 'web framework' means in node-land. None of these things are strictly necessary when building a web app but authz/authn, user management, databases, server-side logic vs client-side logic, are pretty much always needed. When I see the phrase 'web framework' these are the things I am interested in seeing and they all seem…

Sorry but that’s a pretty un-generous take on the state of the Node ecosystem. There’s so many mature solutions for all of these problems and tons of great examples online.

That said, I agree that in the Vercel/Next universe, everything on the backend seems to be an afterthought.

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