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Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

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Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#41

Post by supertrope »

Retric wrote: post #30
vessenes wrote: post #21

It may be that pilot murder-suicides are a terrible problem, but the data in this article does not back this up. The graph of the data they show is an almost textbook-grade ‘evil’ graph. What the graph shows is that * all cause flying mortality is way, way down over the last 30 years * in raw deaths 2011-2020 was way up over prior decade but only slightly up over the one prior to that * there has been one crash this…

It’s not about the raw numbers but that “fatalities caused by murder-suicides are becoming an increasingly large share of the total.” The assumption is this a very low probability event that’s neither increasing or decreasing, but if you improve everything else then then people are just going to hear about murder cases like this.

Kind of like how child mortality in car crashes has decreased below gunshot deaths. And all other pediatric causes of death are now dwarfed by those two.

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#42

Post by Zhyl »

robonerd wrote: post #7

> Fatal crashes of private, business, and corporate-executive airplanes have increased after publicized murder-suicides. The more publicity given to a murder-suicide, the more crashes occurred. The increase in plane crashes occurred primarily in states where the murder-suicides were publicized. These findings suggest that murder-suicide stories trigger subsequent murder-suicides, some of which are disguised as airpla…

This kind of thing always makes me think of the well-known Charlie Brooker (creator of Black Mirror) clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#43

Post by toyg »

core-utility wrote: post #19
robonerd wrote: post #7

> Fatal crashes of private, business, and corporate-executive airplanes have increased after publicized murder-suicides. The more publicity given to a murder-suicide, the more crashes occurred. The increase in plane crashes occurred primarily in states where the murder-suicides were publicized. These findings suggest that murder-suicide stories trigger subsequent murder-suicides, some of which are disguised as airpla…

As every evil act gets blasted worldwide instantaneously, one has to think that we as a culture need to put an end to publicizing the name/photo of the attacker. It's been proven enough times that it empowers others to do the same, for the fame and recognition of the "nobody".

Some media organizations already do that, typically for school shootings or "homegrown terrorists".

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#44

Post by simonh »

InitialLastName wrote: post #40
robonerd wrote: post #7

> Fatal crashes of private, business, and corporate-executive airplanes have increased after publicized murder-suicides. The more publicity given to a murder-suicide, the more crashes occurred. The increase in plane crashes occurred primarily in states where the murder-suicides were publicized. These findings suggest that murder-suicide stories trigger subsequent murder-suicides, some of which are disguised as airpla…

I don't know what the right answer for the media outlets is here; if they didn't report on things like this, the contingent that are constantly shouting that "the main-stream media is hiding the truth from you" would get louder and have another bit of real evidence to underpin their conspiracy theories.

Given the choice between more deaths and noisier crazies, well, you don't have to listen to the crazies. Except when they get elected, I suppose.

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#45

Post by cm2187 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #5

Not just a simple murder/suicide, either, which frequently involves people who know each other. This is flat-out mass murder, terrorism, call it what you will. Killing hundreds of strangers would rank you at the top of any serial killer list.

That’s what I don’t understand. Do they just ignore the passengers when they want to just commit suicide? Seems hard to believe a professional pilot would not have the passengers in mind. Otherwise you need someone who is both suicidal and with psychopathic murderous pulsions, which should be extremely rare. But clearly it’s not. Like for school shootings, I wonder how much one event inspires the next one.

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#46

Post by Qem »

ramesh31 wrote: post #11

It all comes down to the mental health stigma. Even hinting at the slightest bit of mental distress can be enough to lose your medical certificate and end your career. It's no wonder that the pilot population would be more susceptible to the consequences of untreated mental illness.

It's a catch-22 situation. You'd like to avoid unstable people to pilot the plane, but any atempt to filter out unstable people would lead to people hiding the condition and enduring untreated mental disease, what makes the situation worse. I don't see much to be done, beyond screening people that are entering the profession, and then ensuring the work conditions don't make people sick afterwards. When the Germanwings flight went down, I remember it was noticed the pilot was bullied at work. They should have cracked down on the bullies.

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#47

Post by robonerd »

salawat wrote: post #26
robonerd wrote: post #7

> Fatal crashes of private, business, and corporate-executive airplanes have increased after publicized murder-suicides. The more publicity given to a murder-suicide, the more crashes occurred. The increase in plane crashes occurred primarily in states where the murder-suicides were publicized. These findings suggest that murder-suicide stories trigger subsequent murder-suicides, some of which are disguised as airpla…

You can't solve a problem if no one is willing to vocalize and point out that there is one. Societal meta-awareness is a necessary pre-condition of change. To be honest, I'm surprised there are not more Pilot death-by-suicides seeing as being able to fly is one of the most tightly and mercilessly regulated past times. Nevermind being able to make a living off it. For those for whom the wings are life, I can totally u…

> You can't solve a problem if no one is willing to vocalize and point out that there is one. Societal meta-awareness is a necessary pre-condition of change.

I am reticent to discuss this matter at all since I doubt even delicate nuanced public discussion can help. But if you have data showing that public discussion about murder-suicides can reduce their incidence rate, I'd like to see it. As far as I can tell, public discussion makes it worse, but it's hard to warn people away from discussing it without yourself discussing it. Is it ethical for me to warn people away from discussing murder-suicides, if doing so necessarily means that I am discussing them? I'm not sure.

It should be a matter discussed privately among journalists. From what I understand, it is discussed in journalism schools but when push comes to shove they just don't care. If it bleeds, it leads.

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#48

Post by supertrope »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #8

A nose dive maneuver (and any that are clearly anomalous and dangerous) should require simultaneous action by the co-pilot as the likelihood of a double murder-suicide would be incredibly small.

Unfortunately a two man rule would negate the redundancy of having two pilots.

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#49

Post by arminiusreturns »

supertrope wrote: post #41
Retric wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about the raw numbers but that “fatalities caused by murder-suicides are becoming an increasingly large share of the total.” The assumption is this a very low probability event that’s neither increasing or decreasing, but if you improve everything else then then people are just going to hear about murder cases like this.

Kind of like how child mortality in car crashes has decreased below gunshot deaths. And all other pediatric causes of death are now dwarfed by those two.

Source? I don't think that is an accurate summary, but curious what data you based it on.

edit: Ty!

edit2: ouch at that firearm suicide number jump

Re: Murder-Suicides by Pilots Are Vexing Airlines as Deaths Mount

#50

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

robonerd wrote: post #7

> Fatal crashes of private, business, and corporate-executive airplanes have increased after publicized murder-suicides. The more publicity given to a murder-suicide, the more crashes occurred. The increase in plane crashes occurred primarily in states where the murder-suicides were publicized. These findings suggest that murder-suicide stories trigger subsequent murder-suicides, some of which are disguised as airpla…

> The media has known about their role in inducing murder-suicides by reporting on them for decades, but they keep doing it.

The media probably induced the whole school shooting epidemic, with the massive attention paid to Columbine and the Columbine shooters.

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