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A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#41
post #15

The problem in the case mentioned in the article was not with the writer that left the glass by the sink, it's with the other person that was bothered with something so minor...usually these minor things are excuses that cover deeper problems. Above all, marriage is a series of compromises: you give up something for something else. You can't have it all. Personally, I put up with my wife's problematic-for-me but not-…

Exactly. I am on the other side of this in my marriage — my wife leaves her water glass out (sometimes for days) because she “might want to use it again”. It bothered me, so I put it in the dishwasher. She didn’t like that, so I stopped doing it. And I got over the fact that there are sometimes six or seven half-full glasses around the house at any time, because I am not a petty psychotic who would take something so…

Sounds like a dream…

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#42
post #15

The problem in the case mentioned in the article was not with the writer that left the glass by the sink, it's with the other person that was bothered with something so minor...usually these minor things are excuses that cover deeper problems. Above all, marriage is a series of compromises: you give up something for something else. You can't have it all. Personally, I put up with my wife's problematic-for-me but not-…

Exactly. I am on the other side of this in my marriage — my wife leaves her water glass out (sometimes for days) because she “might want to use it again”. It bothered me, so I put it in the dishwasher. She didn’t like that, so I stopped doing it. And I got over the fact that there are sometimes six or seven half-full glasses around the house at any time, because I am not a petty psychotic who would take something so…

[deleted]

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#43

There is a whole other potential article out there that could be written from the ex-wife's side - "My marriage died because I couldn't make this one simple sacrifice". And I suspect both would just as incorrect, at least by omission. The glass thing is a useful article hook, but it's unlikely that it encompasses the sole reason their marriage fell apart. There is a deeper issue here, about neither side being willing…

Years ago I learned this lesson about marriage while on a trip in South Western China. I joined a tour group to see a mountain for a few days. My party was six and the van sat eight, so the driver got another couple to join us. They were fascinating. We learned over meals together that they were an arraigned marriage. At the time I had extremely negative views around the practice, thanks to growing up in the USA where we celebrate our freedom to choose the perfect partner. From them I learned a new facet of love and saw something beautiful in their relationship. They entered marriage knowing they would have differences to solve together. They solved those differences and developed a great relationship.

After that encounter I changed my mental model of finding someone to marry from finding someone perfect for me to arainging my own marriage. By that I meant that I wanted to find someone generally compatable but also willing to work together. It turns out I found that person on that same trip, and we have now been married for 7 years, but that is a long off topic story.

For sure, each side needs to always be trying to compromise more than the other.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#44
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I am on the other side of this in my marriage — my wife leaves her water glass out (sometimes for days) because she “might want to use it again”. It bothered me, so I put it in the dishwasher. She didn’t like that, so I stopped doing it. And I got over the fact that there are sometimes six or seven half-full glasses around the house at any time, because I am not a petty psychotic who would take something so…

Plus, they protect you in the eventuality of an alien attack. Make sure you keep a bat around too.

> Plus, they protect you in the eventuality of an alien attack.

Except when the aliens are ransacking Earth for its water. See the documentaries V [0] and Battle: Los Angeles [1] for more on this.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V_(1983_miniseries)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle:_Los_Angeles

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#45
Me and my wife set aside about half an hour each week to "check in". I hate to compare it to a stand up, but it's kinda what it is. The goal is to focus 100% on each other and talk about the week and do some sort of a "marriage exercise". It's been immensely helpful to take the "temperature" of my spouse and our relationship.

This week, I've been reading "How we love" [0]. I'm only on the first chapter, but it has resonated with me:

> Every marriage has nagging problems calling for our attention. Many people end up thinking their relationship is difficult because they married the wrong person. But the fact that many people are on to their second and third marriages proves that no marriage is tension free. Sometimes our marriages seem to run fairly smoothly—until we hit a crisis or face difficult circumstances. Stress always makes underlying problems more apparent.

The authors talk about "core behaviours" (such as leaving the glasses by the sink in the article) that trigger conflict in a relationship:

> A core pattern is the predicable way you and your spouse react to each other that leaves each of you frustrated and dissatisfied. Some are married a few years before it is apparent, but sooner or later couples can readily identify the same old place where they get stuck. Maybe it’s the same complaints that come up again and again without ever getting resolved or a familiar pattern of fighting, no matter what the topic.

They then tie in your behaviours to how you were treated in childhood and I believe (I haven't gotten there yet) help you understand? alleviate? the sources of conflict.

> Marriage is the most challenging relationship you will ever have, and to think otherwise is to live in denial. When you are with someone day in and day out, you can’t hide. Your weaknesses become quite visible, and old feelings from the distant past are stirred. The physical nearness of your mate triggers old feelings as you look to him or her to meet many of the needs your parents were originally supposed to meet.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/How-We-Love-Expanded-Discover/dp/0735...

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#46

Oh god... who will tell him? She leave him by anything but that. That was the tip of the iceberg in a big comfort zone. Details do matter, in that point the author is right but the article is a huge expression of rationalization to cover up deeper issues. If she would be happy to have him, do you think she would f* care about dishes? She would be proactive and happy to help by cleaning that herself. And offering to c…

No post body was provided.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#47
post #29
post #8

It’s very simple. If something is minor for you but your partner prompts you extensively that it triggers them - change yourself. The willingness to listen and change yourself is what signals your love. Because everything else is much easier.

“I like leaving my glass by the sink, but I know you really hate it. Tell you what, I’ll stop doing it (which is not a concession that it’s wrong) as an act of love for you.” Then they express gratitude, and before you know it, you’ll get a favor like that back on something you really care about.

This. It's like small withdrawals/deposits into a savings account. Take out $1 at a time a whole bunch of times without topping it up and the account winds up empty, even if there weren't any massive withdrawals.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#48
"Is this hill worth dieing on?" is a question I occasionally ask myself.

Other ways to put it: "Would taking 10 seconds to do this now make my wife 1% less stressed?" (If so, do the thing to make her less stressed.)

"Is it worth starting a fight vs spending the same time just fixing the problem?"

"Would spending $COST_OF_THING make my wife happy for a day / make a fond memory of us together?" (Hence why I encourage my thrifty wife to spend a bit of money on semiprecious jewelry or clothes for herself that she enjoys)

"If I cheap out on $COMMMONLY_USED_ITEM, will my wife and I be annoyed by its limitations / bad user experience for years?"

Granted, I am fortunate to be able to pay the bills and have a little extra for the occasional splurge for my wife. And my wife is kind and understanding and I love her dearly. But I learned long ago that doing a little bit extra / spending a bit more for a quality item pays dividends in reducing friction and annoyances daily.

Those daily annoyances add up over time, and not in a good way. Make yourself aware of them, and then fix them. Cut down on stressors so you can spend more mental bandwidth on your wife and kids.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#49
If this couple went to a marriage counselor, the counselor is not going to say "You're going to lose your marriage because you continue to leave dishes by the sink". Instead, (s)he will say "You're going to lose your marriage because of poor communication - she can't communicate what is bothering her, and he doesn't have the communication skills to make it easy for her to communicate it."

If you've read pretty much any book on communications (not limited to relationships), they'll have an example similar to this. And they never suggest "compromise" as a solution (at least not until you break through the communication problem).

This is literally a "textbook" communication problem.

Re: A dirty dish by the sink can be a big marriage problem

#50
Heh, I told my wife today that our first big fight was because she couldn't for two years throw away lemons instead of leaving them on the counter to collect fruit flies. As with the glass, it wasn't about the lemons, but something deeper. What that is, is really dependant on the person and even the relationship. In my / our case it was about me being very laid back and if somebody asked me to do something, and it was no big deal, I'd just do it. And the ratio of things she asked me vs vice versa was about 10:1. So when she couldn't do that one thing I asked her, and I really hate those flies, it eventually blew up.
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