25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance • Hacker News Board

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#41

Post by intended » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 8:57 AM UTC

kapilkale wrote: post #37

pigbucket wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, should the consulting thing confuse or worry anyone? I think the author did a pretty good job of explaining why she is worried, and while your two points are compelling, neither really addresses that explanation. You've got people who wanted to be artists, or public servants, or writers, or filmmakers, or non-profit workers, giving up their dreams for the sake of the security offered seductively by profes…

This is so rarely the case. At my firm the percentage of people in consulting who wanted to be artists, public servants, writers, or filmmakers is less than 10%. The way you've described it makes it sound like all these Yalie beatniks are selling out for the prospect of a stable paycheck. Many of my colleagues weren't lifelong consultants, but they were lifelong businesspeople. The ones who left went on to start tech…

The Yale undergraduates who did get in would inevitably be influenced by the environment they're in.

Second point - I know of talented people who want to get out of PE/IB and join a startup but can never do it because of their regular paychecks and current levels of wealth.

The benefits/numbing comfort of a regular (and very large) pay check are extremely hard to leave, especially for a downgrade.

Once on the treadmill, its hard to get off.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#42

Post by roel_v » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 9:09 AM UTC

bocmaxima wrote: post #36

vecter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that all highly educated people bear a responsibility much greater than ourselves, and this responsibility is fulfilled only by sacrifice and discomfort. I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but assuming you're not, why do the highly educated have any greater responsibility than the less educated?

You can be sure that I was not kidding. Any form of education, combined with intellect and curiosity is a privilege that (believe it or not) a lot of people don't have. Some possess this virtue without the means of attaining it, while others bear the Fortune without the virtue. To be educated and intelligent is to possess a great tool which can serve many if put to good use.

Are you seriously suggesting that people have some form of 'obligation' towards the others, just because they were born with/in a certain intelligence and environment, and that therefore they should relinquish their freedom to do whatever they want for the benefit of the others? If so, and if you're not trolling, I am seriously discomforted and even appalled by your apparent proposition of a fascist or communist "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" morality.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#43

Post by david927 » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 9:20 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #16

I mean, if you had the opportunity to earn six figures at graduation, wouldn't you go into these fields too? 75% of Yalies are normal people (the other 25% come from money). They're the children of working professionals, federal government employees, etc. They have had comfortable upbringings, but their families don't have "fuck you" money. They've been pushed and prodded all their life by parents who, like everyone…

I imagine the question isn't, "Why are they going into this lucrative industry?" as much as it is, "why is this industry so exceptionally lucrative?" To me, the financial industry looks like every other bubble right before the pop with everyone trying to pile in to the money machine, but any close examination of the machine reveals an empty ruse.

Maybe you're right and they were pushed into it. But it's short-term thinking and I am not going to cry when the bubble pops and leaves them holding a big sack of dead end.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#44

Post by ig1 » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 9:24 AM UTC

intended wrote: post #41

kapilkale wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so rarely the case. At my firm the percentage of people in consulting who wanted to be artists, public servants, writers, or filmmakers is less than 10%. The way you've described it makes it sound like all these Yalie beatniks are selling out for the prospect of a stable paycheck. Many of my colleagues weren't lifelong consultants, but they were lifelong businesspeople. The ones who left went on to start tech…

The Yale undergraduates who did get in would inevitably be influenced by the environment they're in. Second point - I know of talented people who want to get out of PE/IB and join a startup but can never do it because of their regular paychecks and current levels of wealth. The benefits/numbing comfort of a regular (and very large) pay check are extremely hard to leave, especially for a downgrade. Once on the treadmi…

On the counter-side I know plenty of IB people who founded startups because their paychecks and level of wealth made it possible to commit several years of their lives to a startup.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#45

Post by ig1 » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 10:21 AM UTC

bocmaxima wrote: post #27

kapilkale wrote: post #4

I don't regret going to management consulting after college. In my opinion, it's the best possible career choice for people who don't know what they want to do. In my time in consulting, I was exposed to people in every corporate function possible, and had the chance to see what their jobs were like. I worked for tech companies, PE firms, corporations, and government-regulated entities. I spent 6 months in growth equ…

FB and Amazon turned out just fine without your help, the only reason you wish you had worked there was in order to extract and benefit from the great pool of wealth and prestige. Your value to society is nil for as long as you spend more mental energy consuming more than you create. Remember that all highly educated people bear a responsibility much greater than ourselves, and this responsibility is fulfilled only b…

You do realize FB COO Sheryl Sandberg is ex-McKinsey right ?

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#46

Post by kalid » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 10:38 AM UTC

turing wrote: post #29

SqMafia wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yuck. I know you meant that with the best intentions but your comment came out really snobby. Are finance and consulting valuable fields or should they just be abolished altogether? Given how some of these people are paid, one can at least say that it is valuable from a monetary point of view. If these fields are indeed valuable, then who should fill the positions if not Yalies? Should state school students fill thos…

I am not implying that there is a standard for Yalies that doesn't apply to others. I am saying that there is a standard that all of us should aspire to, and that the good fortune that Yalies have been blessed with better positions us to reach it. When it comes down to it, there is more to assessing a position's value than the income figures on your tax returns. There are the products you produced, the innovations yo…

Very well put. Jumping into a finance/consulting job for the money and living out your life is the career equivalent of cranking out jingos for commercials or kitsch art reproductions. We're human beings, we're meant to follow our passions. If someone is genuinely interested in optimizing processes or structuring finances, great! But it's a disservice to your soul to jump in for the money alone.

I realize this is a "luxury" mentality (I'm actually the son of immigrants from a poor background so I get this) but life is about more. "I study physics and engineering so my children can study literature and philosophy" is a famous quote along these lines (can't remember). Funny enough, I enjoy math/physics for its own sake. But mindlessly pressuring/inciting people to be doctors/consultants/financial analysts is doing them a disservice in the long run.

And for what it's worth, I think the revenue created by the finance industry far exceeds its value. Saying "the industry must be valuable because it makes money" doesn't sway me. The rubber dog crap industry is probably millions but it's not helping people.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#47

Post by alexro » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 10:47 AM UTC

bocmaxima wrote: post #36

vecter wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that all highly educated people bear a responsibility much greater than ourselves, and this responsibility is fulfilled only by sacrifice and discomfort. I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but assuming you're not, why do the highly educated have any greater responsibility than the less educated?

You can be sure that I was not kidding. Any form of education, combined with intellect and curiosity is a privilege that (believe it or not) a lot of people don't have. Some possess this virtue without the means of attaining it, while others bear the Fortune without the virtue. To be educated and intelligent is to possess a great tool which can serve many if put to good use.

You maybe right somewhat somewhere but your direct wording doesn't fit with the world I know

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#48

Post by dsandrowitz » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 11:36 AM UTC

capkutay wrote: post #30

The fact that I know too many people under the age of 22 with no degrees (not to say they're unintelligent), running their own successful "consulting" companies makes me question the industry on its own. Don't get me wrong, it's a great career path for some. But I would hope that any venture I'm apart of won't need it...better options would include corporate law firms that double in business development or having inv…

I think there is a big difference between Bain or McKinsey and some social media consultancy started by a kid who believes that prolific tweeting is the future of marketing. Both paths might lead to varying degrees of economic vampires, but at least the freelances are trying to build their own business instead of joining the overlords.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#49

Post by Maro » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 12:07 PM UTC

tikhonj wrote: post #39

One of the things I love about being in CS is that there is much less pressure to go into management consulting or finance--straight out of college, tech companies offer similar stability and pay (perhaps more stability and less pay, but it's close) coupled with very nice working conditions and actual, nontrivial engineering problems. For me and my EE/CS friends there are three options that come before finance (I don…

The point is, they can go into M/C/F, make 6-figure salaries at age 23, then go from there. They'll be making a whole lot more than the vast majority of engineers even at Google, without taking risks. By the time they're 35, they'll be very wealthy, about as wealthy as you'd be if you start a startup and sell at a $10M valuation (and keep $1-2M), but they don't have to take any risks.

But you have to work very hard (all the way from High School), tread along a well defined path, and it'll work out. It's a standardized, reproducible variant of the American Dream of living a wealthy life.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#50

Post by jgfoot » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 12:23 PM UTC

A revealing part of the article comes when Yale Prof. Hicks says that, rather than develop skills with consulting firms, "There are a half-dozen more life-affirming ways you can acquire those same skills, including taking a class at night at a junior college while you do something more interesting."

This is not a good advertisement for Yale. In addition to costing a lot of money, Yale costs four years of lifetime. Yet, after all that, students are left in a position where if they want business skills, they have to hold down a job and go to night school at a junior college?