25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance • Hacker News Board

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#21

Post by jrockway » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 4:21 AM UTC

turing wrote: post #13

I was actually discussing this with a fellow Yale student over dinner tonight. We both came to the same, largely negative, conclusion as the professors interviewed in the article: "it’s an unproductive use of Yalies’ time." These students are given opportunities most people only dream of. We are exposed to leaders in our fields every day. We are blessed with a $20 billion endowment that enables nearly anything we can…

Maybe Yale should use that endowment to pay people to give back to society? In the end, people don't become bankers or consultants because they are looking for the easiest way to be a drain on society. They do it because society gives them a lot of money for doing it, and they have to pay off their $100,000 student loans and raise a family.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#22

Post by MaxGabriel » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 4:24 AM UTC

turing wrote: post #13

I was actually discussing this with a fellow Yale student over dinner tonight. We both came to the same, largely negative, conclusion as the professors interviewed in the article: "it’s an unproductive use of Yalies’ time." These students are given opportunities most people only dream of. We are exposed to leaders in our fields every day. We are blessed with a $20 billion endowment that enables nearly anything we can…

By the sound of the endowment numbers, they've found a pretty good way to give back

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#23

Post by SqMafia » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 4:51 AM UTC

turing wrote: post #13

I was actually discussing this with a fellow Yale student over dinner tonight. We both came to the same, largely negative, conclusion as the professors interviewed in the article: "it’s an unproductive use of Yalies’ time." These students are given opportunities most people only dream of. We are exposed to leaders in our fields every day. We are blessed with a $20 billion endowment that enables nearly anything we can…

Yuck. I know you meant that with the best intentions but your comment came out really snobby.

Are finance and consulting valuable fields or should they just be abolished altogether? Given how some of these people are paid, one can at least say that it is valuable from a monetary point of view. If these fields are indeed valuable, then who should fill the positions if not Yalies? Should state school students fill those roles because it is not beneath them to make a lot of money?

A field is either worthy or unworthy of a person's time. There's no need to say it's unworthy of a Yalie's time. To say that and then follow it with how blessed and lucky you are, makes people think you think Yalies should aspire to some higher standard that others don't have to. It's kind of arrogant.

At the end of the day, even Yalies have to eat and satisfy their material needs. It's silly to think that they're somehow immune to the desires most humans have. The Yale admission process doesn't filter out applicants based on that. It does optimize for high achievement and ambition. Given that, why would anyone really expect Yalies to avoid careers that are financially rewarding and, until recently, quite prestigious?

-Yale Alum in tech

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#24

Post by turing » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 4:51 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #21

turing wrote: post #13

I was actually discussing this with a fellow Yale student over dinner tonight. We both came to the same, largely negative, conclusion as the professors interviewed in the article: "it’s an unproductive use of Yalies’ time." These students are given opportunities most people only dream of. We are exposed to leaders in our fields every day. We are blessed with a $20 billion endowment that enables nearly anything we can…

Maybe Yale should use that endowment to pay people to give back to society? In the end, people don't become bankers or consultants because they are looking for the easiest way to be a drain on society. They do it because society gives them a lot of money for doing it, and they have to pay off their $100,000 student loans and raise a family.

They do in many ways, at least indirectly.

One possible outlet we discussed for encouraging students to forgo careers in banking and consulting was financial aid. Suppose Yale instituted a policy that accepting financial aid required an agreement to forgo consulting and banking positions for at least 2 years after graduation. This would decrease the number of students who choose such careers "just because." Other students who intend to go into such careers would surely be drawn away to other fields during the waiting period. Of course, those who do not qualify for financial aid, and those who can afford to deny the aid they are offered, would not be affected by such a measure. This would warrant a consideration of whether the class divide on post-graduation freedom is undesirable. Then again, I don't think it would be unreasonable for Yale to say: "We are offering you the opportunity of a lifetime, an education at an amazing school you would otherwise not be able to afford. The only condition is that you must do something productive with it."

There's also the possibility of positive reinforcement as opposed to the negative scenarios outlined above. What if Yale offered additional financial aid to those who agreed to teach/do research/pursue charitable work for two years after graduation?

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#25

Post by qq66 » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 4:53 AM UTC

I now run a startup (http://getliveloop.com) but started out of college with 2 years at McKinsey. I can't compare it against anything else as a job right out of college, but I learned a lot about various types of businesses, how to communicate to executives, and the general polish that I needed to get from MIT to a fundraising meeting on Sand Hill Road. I also got to work and live for a few months in 9 different cities around the world, which gave me a great perspective on what I care and don't care about in terms of where I live, where I work, and who I associate with.

I found it very useful to me, I didn't have to come up with convoluted justifications for why I did it, and I'd do it again if I was in a similar situation.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#26

Post by kapilkale » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 4:55 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #21

turing wrote: post #13

I was actually discussing this with a fellow Yale student over dinner tonight. We both came to the same, largely negative, conclusion as the professors interviewed in the article: "it’s an unproductive use of Yalies’ time." These students are given opportunities most people only dream of. We are exposed to leaders in our fields every day. We are blessed with a $20 billion endowment that enables nearly anything we can…

Maybe Yale should use that endowment to pay people to give back to society? In the end, people don't become bankers or consultants because they are looking for the easiest way to be a drain on society. They do it because society gives them a lot of money for doing it, and they have to pay off their $100,000 student loans and raise a family.

Yale's endowment money is indirectly invested in some nontrivial amount of startups you see headlining tech blogs.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#27

Post by bocmaxima » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 5:05 AM UTC

kapilkale wrote: post #4

I don't regret going to management consulting after college. In my opinion, it's the best possible career choice for people who don't know what they want to do. In my time in consulting, I was exposed to people in every corporate function possible, and had the chance to see what their jobs were like. I worked for tech companies, PE firms, corporations, and government-regulated entities. I spent 6 months in growth equ…

FB and Amazon turned out just fine without your help, the only reason you wish you had worked there was in order to extract and benefit from the great pool of wealth and prestige. Your value to society is nil for as long as you spend more mental energy consuming more than you create. Remember that all highly educated people bear a responsibility much greater than ourselves, and this responsibility is fulfilled only by sacrifice and discomfort.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#28

Post by Bartlet » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 5:13 AM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #6

Honestly, should the consulting thing confuse or worry anyone? First, my understanding is that the term "consultant" has become so broad that it basically just means "contractor" for intellectual jobs; it covers coding, management, business strategy, and a million other things. Second, even if we stick to a slightly more narrow definition, consulting essentially boils down to smart people going around to existing bus…

In this context, I think "consulting" means Management Consulting, i.e. working for McKinsey, Bain, BCG, etc. Corporate recruiting at top schools is heavily dominated by finance and management consulting firms.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#29

Post by turing » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 5:15 AM UTC

SqMafia wrote: post #23

turing wrote: post #13

I was actually discussing this with a fellow Yale student over dinner tonight. We both came to the same, largely negative, conclusion as the professors interviewed in the article: "it’s an unproductive use of Yalies’ time." These students are given opportunities most people only dream of. We are exposed to leaders in our fields every day. We are blessed with a $20 billion endowment that enables nearly anything we can…

Yuck. I know you meant that with the best intentions but your comment came out really snobby. Are finance and consulting valuable fields or should they just be abolished altogether? Given how some of these people are paid, one can at least say that it is valuable from a monetary point of view. If these fields are indeed valuable, then who should fill the positions if not Yalies? Should state school students fill thos…

I am not implying that there is a standard for Yalies that doesn't apply to others. I am saying that there is a standard that all of us should aspire to, and that the good fortune that Yalies have been blessed with better positions us to reach it.

When it comes down to it, there is more to assessing a position's value than the income figures on your tax returns. There are the products you produced, the innovations you fostered, the lives you bettered, and the individuals you saved. Not everyone is in a position, socially or financially, to effect such outcomes in their professional lives. Yalies, because of a mix of hard work, luck, and the outstanding generosity of others, are better positioned to make these positive contributions to society than almost anyone in the world. The fact that so many choose such a singularly self-interested path, one whose value is tied solely to the money they earn for themselves, is what upsets me.

Re: 25% of Yale goes to Consulting, Finance

#30

Post by capkutay » Mon, Oct 03, 2011, 5:45 AM UTC

The fact that I know too many people under the age of 22 with no degrees (not to say they're unintelligent), running their own successful "consulting" companies makes me question the industry on its own. Don't get me wrong, it's a great career path for some. But I would hope that any venture I'm apart of won't need it...better options would include corporate law firms that double in business development or having investors with experience and know-how in your field...