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468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

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Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#41

Post by throwawayarnty »

mschuster91 wrote: post #23
mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

I think the main factor is how many kids you have.

No kids: USA > Europe

1 kid: they are similar

2 kids or more: Europe > USA

In the USA each kid is an extra 3000 usd a month expense at least, more if one goes private and include university tuition.

How parents can pay for two or more kids’s education in USA (or UK) is beyond me.

With two or more kids in USA you essential force your children into wage slavery by going into huge amounts of college debt.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#42

Post by mathverse »

heurisko wrote: post #40
mathverse wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can check numbeo for this. For me this was NEVER relevant. Only what mattered was disposable income.

I find databases regarding cost of living to go quickly out of date. But looking at Graz, Austria, a 80,000, even if gross, euro salary would provide a very good standard of living. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Graz

Who wants to live in Graz?

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#43

Post by mschuster91 »

mathverse wrote: post #26
mschuster91 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

>- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer Hmm I wonder where this mythical cheap healthcare is...If you are not really sick (and most young people are not) you typically pay for things anyway (dental care) >- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private…

> I dont have children? And judging by birth rates a lot of people dont as well.

Agreed, but lower fertility rates are common in wealthier countries - an effect notable enough to be recognizable even in first-generation migrants. When you don't have to have a literal dozen children so that one or two make it to adulthood to support you in old age, you're fine with having one or two - or even none, given that we have support systems for old people backed by society as a whole instead of families having to take care for themselves.

> Are housing costs relative to tech salaries really lower than the US?

Yes. Here in Germany, while I agree that rents are way too high, we simply don't have something like "working homeless".

> Again as a young, ambitious individual in Tech I would rather have more disposable income than rely on a ponzi scheme that's the gov-backed pension system.

Wonder who's gonna pick up the tab for you once you are in pension.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#44

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #38
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Literally nothing prevents you from doing that in Europe. Except, you know, money. In DE/AT houses are insanely expresive relative to net pay.

> In DE/AT houses are insanely expresive relative to net pay. At least you can actually buy a house here. A friend of mine is a teacher and just bought a 180 m² house plus garden in the suburbs of Munich, 20 minutes from the city center.

>A friend of mine is a teacher and just bought a 180 m² house plus garden in the suburbs of Munich, 20 minutes from the city center.

And a friend of mine works with the president and took me on a space ship to the moon. Is this how this game works? How much is his teacher's salary and how much did the house cost? Those are important details worth mentioning to form an argument. Otherwise, without stating any facts, we're just making stuff up.

I worked with Munich devs and they all said you can't afford a house in the suburbs without an inheritance due to how insane the Munich housing bubble has gotten with houses going for over a million Euros, so I doubt your friend could buy a house just on mortgage based on his salary.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#45

Post by mattbee »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #33
mattbee wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(in the UK)

In other countries as well.

I meant the term "Jobseeker's Allowance" is a relatively new name for unemployment benefits in the UK, not that the UK is the only place that pays them. Somebody else asked the OP where in Europe they had moved to, which is why I chipped in.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#46

Post by mupuff1234 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #23
mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

> no need to stuff away money for pension because we actually have working government-backed pensions

That doesn't happen magically, it's being deducted from your paycheck (i.e you are stuffing away money).

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#47

Post by dagw »

mschuster91 wrote: post #23
mathverse wrote: post #12

Eg. net income calculator for Austria: https://onlinerechner.haude.at/Brutto-Netto-Rechner/ People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. I dont recommend anyone young and ambitious to work in tech here.

> People rarely make 80k/year here and everything here is expensive af. The thing is, you earn less on paper than in the US, but your total cost of living (and thus, your "available" income) is way lower, too: - healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer - public education for your childre…

way less commute expenses

I doubt that, or at least it is very dependent on where you live. Both cars, gas and parking (as most employers in the US seem to offer free parking for employees) is generally much cheaper in the US. And while most places in Europe have (more or less) working public transport it is quite expensive. In the US I've used public transport in New York City, Chicago and Washington DC and they all had significantly cheaper public transport than here in Sweden for example.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#48

Post by raverbashing »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #32
raverbashing wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious on why are you not in the US then? > you typically pay for things anyway (dental care) Ah yes, dental care. The thing that's literelly not included in healthcare in most places. > I would rather commute from a suburb and have a house with a garden. Literally nothing prevents you from doing that in Europe. Houses might be smaller depending on the country, but this exists.

>Literally nothing prevents you from doing that in Europe. Except, you know, money. In DE/AT houses are insanely expresive relative to net pay.

"Insanely expensive" well, depends on what do you consider insane. Let me look around the websites

Looked around Munich you can find options between 500k and 700k around 20km. I wouldn't be surprised if houses inside the city would cost ~1Mi (but we're talking about suburbs right? and cities grow differently)

Around Dublin you can find for that range or even less, inside the city (in liveable areas)

For comparison, searching around Chicago it's probably a bit less (though with bigger surface area) - excluding the foreclosures or fixer-uppers.

Buying a house in SV is also insanely expensive even with SV salaries, so.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#49

Post by dagw »

mschuster91 wrote: post #43
mathverse wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>- healthcare is cheap and universally available, no need to stuff away money in HSAs to account for a sudden 100k$ bill from a broken leg or a million dollar bill from cancer Hmm I wonder where this mythical cheap healthcare is...If you are not really sick (and most young people are not) you typically pay for things anyway (dental care) >- public education for your children is free, you don't need to pay for private…

> I dont have children? And judging by birth rates a lot of people dont as well. Agreed, but lower fertility rates are common in wealthier countries - an effect notable enough to be recognizable even in first-generation migrants. When you don't have to have a literal dozen children so that one or two make it to adulthood to support you in old age, you're fine with having one or two - or even none, given that we have…

simply don't have something like "working homeless".

Does the US have "working homeless" among people earning "tech" salaries?

Wonder who's gonna pick up the tab for you once you are in pension.

If you're earning US level take home salaries you should have zero problems financing your own pension plan.

Re: 468 Capital raises $400M to back European startups

#50

Post by heurisko »

mathverse wrote: post #42
heurisko wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find databases regarding cost of living to go quickly out of date. But looking at Graz, Austria, a 80,000, even if gross, euro salary would provide a very good standard of living. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/in/Graz

Who wants to live in Graz?

There have been a few high profile security papers come from Graz university of technology and they seem to want to invest in the city as a security hub.

https://cybersecurity-campus.tugraz.at

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