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US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

federalregister.gov

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Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#41

Post by Ancapistani »

vineyardmike wrote: post #21
thinkingemote wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more of a moral maze when it comes to forced, mandated vaccination, which I think this is about. For example, it can be argued that it is an individuals right to choose what happens to their body, healthcare should be voluntary and people should expect no penalty in a healthy free society. That's different than if a vaccine is morally ok to choose voluntarily.

No it’s not. We’ve had mandated vaccines forever and no one cared until it became political during covid. People made it political and people are avoiding vaccines for politic. blaming it protecting freedoms i stead harming public health for politics is a less morally corrupt stance to take.

> We’ve had mandated vaccines forever

That’s news to me.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#42

Post by CrazyStat »

hash872 wrote: post #13

If I were designing a constitutional system for a new country, I'd certainly include freedom of religion as one of the basic rights- while also codifying that there are no religious exemptions to any laws. Regardless of your faith, you are required to follow the same laws as your fellow citizens, without exception. Religious exemptions should not exist. One of my issues with it is that 'religion' can mean whatever yo…

That's not really freedom of religion then, is it? "You can be Muslim (/Sikh/Mormon/etc.), but you can't wear the clothing prescribed by your religion", a la French secularism, is a weak accommodation that allows people to be a little different as long as they aren't too different. It is far short of actual freedom of conscience.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#43

Post by arcticbull »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #37
arcticbull wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you should let Charles Manson's defense team know.

How is that relevant? Not murdering people is a societal mandate.

Not murdering people by spreading disease is a societal mandate too, in my opinion. People who spread deadly STDs like AIDS can be held liable for attempted murder. It seems we've already decided as a society that knowingly spreading deadly disease is a kind of violence. It doesn't extend here to the same degree because it's obviously much less deadly (and so much is circulating, proving who gave it to you is all but impossible) - however I think the premise holds.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#44

Post by axpy906 »

antihipocrat wrote: post #39
hash872 wrote: post #13

If I were designing a constitutional system for a new country, I'd certainly include freedom of religion as one of the basic rights- while also codifying that there are no religious exemptions to any laws. Regardless of your faith, you are required to follow the same laws as your fellow citizens, without exception. Religious exemptions should not exist. One of my issues with it is that 'religion' can mean whatever yo…

Except that this law isn't preventing religious exceptions, it's a law to identify individuals who are claiming such.

> it's a law to identify individuals who are claiming such

Which means that they are now traceable and can be cross referenced against other databases.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#45

Post by floober »

vineyardmike wrote: post #29
imperio59 wrote: post #15

Quoted post unavailable.

I agree that the register is a bad and dangerous road but can we all at least recognize that “religion” is actually “politics” in this case. We’re identifying blind trump loyalists who were tricked by the political system into choosing politics over public health.

I'm not sure how meaningful it is to separate politics from religion at the the level of the individual person. Those two things are strongly interconnected and together constitute a large chunk of an individual's personal beliefs.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#46

Post by sebow »

Good luck quantifying belief.What a dumb fucking idea.The 'issue' is that the employees are employed by the government, thus funded by public money.There are 2 obvious choices here, without the need to dig stupid reasons of "why people won't get vaccinated & how to 'flatted the curve'": The employee simply quits their job, or there is no forced vaccination.Anything else compares the status of 'normal' citizens and government employees being subjected in a different manner under laws & even the constitution.And this attempt of reasoning why people don't want to get vaxxed does nothing but empowers the former entity mentioned: the employer, the government.

Refusing a medical procedure is a legitimate argument for the right to health & liberty just as much as accepting a handed syringe is.You don't even need to bring religion into this, but a certain segment of the population never gets tired of doing it.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#47

Post by merlincorey »

joshuamorton wrote: post #26
imperio59 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've only had mRNA vaccines for two years. Also there are starting to be plenty of companies requiring boosters. Do you want to get a new experimental vaccine whose long term effects are poorly known every few months?

The booster is the same as the original vaccine but in a lower dosage. This may change with future boosters, but I also get a flu vaccine every year (and have for a decade). Those are "new" each year but aren't generally considered dangerous and experimental. > Do you want to get a new experimental vaccine whose long term effects are poorly known every few months? Can you give a coherent biological mechanism by which…

> In other words, the only vaccine side effects possible after a month or so are a strict subset of covid side effects.

I'm curious how you reconcile that statement with the various reports of women having way too much menstruation or way too little for several months after their shots.

In a recent article about a study from Boston University[0], the researcher believes that under six months after vaccination would amount to short term side effects:

> We don’t know yet whether vaccination does have an effect on menstruation. So, I think we need to wait and see what the results of these studies come out with. And let’s just say there is an effect, we don’t know if it’s just a short-term effect or a longer-term effect. And so even if we see evidence of short-term effects, it may be that these effects go away and are no longer clinically meaningful or wreaking havoc on women’s lives over the long term, meaning like six months after vaccination. We also need to keep in mind what are the other types of reproductive outcomes of interest like fertility. That being said, I can tell you that I was surprised to see how low the percent vaccinated in our cohort was.

[0] - https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/do-covid-vaccines-affect-me...

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#48

Post by dragonwriter »

foolinaround wrote: post #22

What is the rationale for the state to keep track of the religious preferences of its citizens in this manner? This can be used for nefarious purposes.

> What is the rationale for the state to keep track of the religious preferences of its citizens in this manner?

It's a system for employee information gathered relevant to fulfilling the DC Pretrial Services Agency’s responsibility for health and safety for “individuals who are occupying PSA facilities, attending PSA-sponsored events, or otherwise engaged in official business on behalf of the Agency.”

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#49

Post by arcticbull »

merlincorey wrote: post #47
joshuamorton wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The booster is the same as the original vaccine but in a lower dosage. This may change with future boosters, but I also get a flu vaccine every year (and have for a decade). Those are "new" each year but aren't generally considered dangerous and experimental. > Do you want to get a new experimental vaccine whose long term effects are poorly known every few months? Can you give a coherent biological mechanism by which…

> In other words, the only vaccine side effects possible after a month or so are a strict subset of covid side effects. I'm curious how you reconcile that statement with the various reports of women having way too much menstruation or way too little for several months after their shots. In a recent article about a study from Boston University[0], the researcher believes that under six months after vaccination would a…

The study author on that page says:

> ... there’s no evidence that the vaccine has any impact on menstruation, fertility, any of these reproductive outcomes.

This is an interesting read, and the folks interviewed run the PRESTO NIH-funded study which tracks all aspects of pregnancy and menstruation. They say they heard a bunch of anecdotes, have some theories on what could cause this (if it in fact exists) - but that there is insufficient data to claim any adverse outcomes at all.

The reality is, to the best of my knowledge (I am a man, so keep that in mind) menstrual cycles are highly variable and do not follow a fixed predictable 28 day cycle. If I had to guess, these menstrual changes were completely uncorrelated but that the women nervous about vaccination self-selected to make these reports.

The PRESTO folks will collect and analyze data via PRESTO and share the results in due time.

Re: US Fed – Employee Religious Exception Request Information System

#50

Post by woodruffw »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #32
arcticbull wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy. It will dissuade people who don't hold legitimate religious beliefs forbidding vaccination (there are substantially zero of them) from using religious exemptions. This will increase the vaccination percentages, reducing spread and keeping ICUs available for folks who didn't elect their condition. [edit] I'm sorry, if you choose to prioritize conspiracy theories over your health and that of others, I'm not at al…

> It will dissuade people who don't hold legitimate religious beliefs forbidding vaccination (there are substantially zero of them) from using religious exemptions. There is no such thing as a legitimate or illegitimate religious belief, assuming there is separation of church and state. If I want to make up a religion (aka a set of assumptions) this second that contradict societal mandates, then my set of assumptions…

> There is no such thing as a legitimate or illegitimate religious belief, assuming there is separation of church and state.

I don't understand the conjunction you're creating between these. The separation of church and state protects the state's independence and autonomy from the church, not vice versa. The state is under no particular obligation to protect or enshrine as religious any ridiculous thing you can dream up.

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