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The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

usitc.gov

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Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#41

Post by vmception »

mdoms wrote: post #34
ethernet_cable wrote: post #27

This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question. Adjusting Spotify cast on the Google Home used to be so easy... https://www.androidpolice.com/google-had-to-remove-cast-volu...

> This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question. Are you f'ing kidding me? This has been driving me nuts, I assumed it was just another stupid Android bug that would eventually be silently patched. It's so annoying how functionality like this can be removed without a peep, at least inform me if you'r…

They could have licensed the patent, I know crazy talk, but we never see what the licensing arrangements would have been

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#42

Post by vmception »

rektide wrote: post #36

It's so hard to imagine the entire industry being held hostage like this. My second thought is that this radically enhances the need for good IoT standards. Right now many devices are built to grant Google & Google alone the capability to control & orchestrate. Our devices are all vulnerable to legal attach because Google is the sole arbiter of control over our systems, and no one else has much of a say in how these…

It is very routine to license patents

We have no insight into what a licensing agreement would have looked like to judge

We also have no idea if google just opted to not pay

I cant hop on the “hostage industry” train without that detail

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#43

Post by jvolkman »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #13
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #11

Is Sonos suing Apple as well? Seems like the tech in dispute is also used by HomePods and AirPlay. I can't quickly find anything about Sonos suing Apple, and in fact Apple was selling Sonos speakers in their stores in 2020 [1]. What is the deal? [1] https://www.imore.com/apple-begins-sell-sonos-speaker-compan...

Google explicitly partnered with Sonos in a collaborative project to find out how Sonos' tech worked, then copied it. It's plausible that Sonos feels Google explicitly stole from them, and Apple built something else. Or, empowered by a win against Google, they file suit against Apple tomorrow. No reason to be in two high cost lawsuits at the same time.

Why would Google need to partner/collaborate to steal what would be publicly described in a patent?

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#44

Post by vineyardmike »

yccs27 wrote: post #15
suddenexample wrote: post #2

As far as I can tell, these are the patents mentioned in the document: Method and apparatus for adjusting volume levels in a multi-zone system - https://patents.google.com/patent/US8588949B2/en System and method for synchronizing operations among a plurality of independently clocked digital data processing devices - https://patents.google.com/patent/US9195258B2/en Multi-channel pairing in a media system - https://pat…

Google will probably have to get the patents themselves removed, by proving prior work or such. Those patents are way too broad. I wonder what Bose does, they have their own multiroom system. Do they license the patents from Sonos?

> Do they license the patents from Sonos?

IIRC Some other companies made agreements with Sonos to avoid suites (incl apple i blieve?), but sonos has claimed that google was bullying them over a number of things, including the claim that GAssistant only supports one assistant/wake word at a time, per contract, but alexa does not have this limitation. But thats apparently why the android app is worse, they don't support casting, and they're focusing on the apple/alexa ecosystem (airplay, etc).

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#45

Post by vineyardmike »

AceJohnny2 wrote: post #11

Is Sonos suing Apple as well? Seems like the tech in dispute is also used by HomePods and AirPlay. I can't quickly find anything about Sonos suing Apple, and in fact Apple was selling Sonos speakers in their stores in 2020 [1]. What is the deal? [1] https://www.imore.com/apple-begins-sell-sonos-speaker-compan...

Apple and sonos have a much healthier relationship, and supposedly they struck a mutually beneficial deal after the g suit started.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#47

Post by newhotelowner »

ethernet_cable wrote: post #27

This is the reason the physical volume buttons on Android 12 on Pixel phones no longer adjust Chromecasted music volume, unless you are in the music app in question. Adjusting Spotify cast on the Google Home used to be so easy... https://www.androidpolice.com/google-had-to-remove-cast-volu...

January 2022 Pixel update fixes Chromecast controls for most apps on Android 12

https://www.realmicentral.com/2022/01/06/january-2022-pixel-...

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#48

Post by jrochkind1 »

ra-mos wrote: post #30
akersten wrote: post #22

Patents are horrible. Can you really look me in the face and tell me that controlling the volume of speakers independently of each other is some kind of special idea - not even a concrete product, but so innovative that the very concept deserves an exclusive license and millions in damages from those that dare implement a common-sense UX control? If you can, let me know where I can sign up for free Sonos products for…

Yes, because at one point in time that was an innovation. You said it yourself.

People have been controlling the volume of multiple-room speakers with wired connections, with a single volume knob, for 50 years. The idea that "oh wait someone might want to do this with wireless speakers too" is an innovation that needs to be given to the first person to think of it as a monopoloy? (And does anyone really think they were really the first person to think of it just cause they have a patent?)

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#49

Post by rektide »

vmception wrote: post #42
rektide wrote: post #36

It's so hard to imagine the entire industry being held hostage like this. My second thought is that this radically enhances the need for good IoT standards. Right now many devices are built to grant Google & Google alone the capability to control & orchestrate. Our devices are all vulnerable to legal attach because Google is the sole arbiter of control over our systems, and no one else has much of a say in how these…

It is very routine to license patents We have no insight into what a licensing agreement would have looked like to judge We also have no idea if google just opted to not pay I cant hop on the “hostage industry” train without that detail

Im uninterested in my devices & functionality i use being ever subject to legal brawls, these ones & in general.

Spotify is under no obligation to offer Fair Reasonable and Non-discrimatory license agreements. To say that license agreements are routine ignores the other half the time that agreements dont work out easily. A patent holder can hold the entire world back at their pleasure. In this case, over a couple line shell scripts we could teach middleschoolers in Hour of Code day.

I have little sympathy for what feels like ambiguous legal murk you've layered over my concern. These particulars seem uninteresting amid what seems like yet another nimwitted IP fuck up that idoot grade patents were handed out to bloodthirsty IP robber barons. Once again consumers are in the crosshair. And this time we cannot seek alternate remedy, our devices are all beholden & bound up, controlled by solitary companies, vulnerable to legal assault. This is an unhealthy technical ecosystem, & it's unhealth has made it subject to wide forms of cruel & vicious legal attack on endless fronts, from an incompetent legal system.

Re: The ITC declares Google infringed on audio tech patents held by Sonos [pdf]

#50

Post by MBCook »

vineyardmike wrote: post #46
MBCook wrote: post #40

So Google buys Sonos by the end of the week?

But i like my sonos products and want them to work for more than another few weeks... and theres no sonos chat app so why would they want sonos really?

It’s me cynically suggesting that they’ll do that just to get rid of this annoyance. That’s what Facebook and many other big companies would do. I don’t know if Google has done in the past but it wouldn’t surprise me.
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