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Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

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Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#41
post #32
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, the concept of "Public Domain" does not exist. (EDIT: It may exist 70 years after the authors death). IANAL. Besides that, even if it would, the books would not have been in the Public Domain. From the announcement: > In Germany, they are copyrighted based on "life +70 years" of copyright protection (so, copyright will expire after 2020, 2025 and 2027, respectively). From a legal and business perspective,…

> In Germany, the concept of "Public Domain" does not exist. (EDIT: It may exist 70 years after the authors death). IANAL. Works are "gemeinfrei" (approx. "public domain") 70 years after the author's death, or 70 years after publication for non-natural persons holding a copyright (e.g. corporate copyright). What you might think of is that there's no official way for an author to release works into the public domain i…

I know Germany doesn't do legal precedent, but is there actually any case law demonstrating works can't be put into the public domain?

The idea it can't be done is a trope at this point, but I am frankly skeptical.

Moral rights to recognition aside, copyright can be sold, like any other property. Why do we think it can't be abandoned, again like any other property?

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#43
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany, the concept of "Public Domain" does not exist. (EDIT: It may exist 70 years after the authors death). IANAL. Besides that, even if it would, the books would not have been in the Public Domain. From the announcement: > In Germany, they are copyrighted based on "life +70 years" of copyright protection (so, copyright will expire after 2020, 2025 and 2027, respectively). From a legal and business perspective,…

> And while I understand, that Project Gutenberg has limited resources and may have no desire to do the extra work of blocking works on a case by case basis, it would not have been difficult. Instead, they have chosen to collectively punish all people from Germany, which resulted us to be seven years without access, at least as long we did not utilize a VPN. They explain their rationale for this and it is a very soun…

Which international treaties were ignored by German courts in these cases?

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#44
post #41
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Germany, the concept of "Public Domain" does not exist. (EDIT: It may exist 70 years after the authors death). IANAL. Works are "gemeinfrei" (approx. "public domain") 70 years after the author's death, or 70 years after publication for non-natural persons holding a copyright (e.g. corporate copyright). What you might think of is that there's no official way for an author to release works into the public domain i…

I know Germany doesn't do legal precedent, but is there actually any case law demonstrating works can't be put into the public domain? The idea it can't be done is a trope at this point, but I am frankly skeptical. Moral rights to recognition aside, copyright can be sold, like any other property. Why do we think it can't be abandoned, again like any other property?

§42 UrhG (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__42.html, english translation https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_ur...) is probably core to what an author can do about their personality rights in relation to their works:

---

Section 42 Right of revocation for changed conviction

(1) The author may revoke a right of use vis-à-vis the rightholder if the work no longer reflects his conviction and he can therefore no longer be expected to agree to the exploitation of the work. The author’s successor in title (section 30) may exercise the right of revocation only if he can prove that the author would have been entitled to exercise this right prior to his death and that he was prevented from exercising the right or provided for its exercise by testamentary disposition.

(2) The right of revocation may not be waived in advance. Its exercise may not be precluded.

... (more stuff that is about compensation and how you can't use this clause to just start to exploit the works on your own after taking it out of circulation, but not relevant here) ...

---

Putting stuff into the public domain would either mean:

- that an author waives their right to revocation in advance (that "rightholder" would be the public, I guess), but that's explicitly forbidden by (2) or

- that they can claw back the work from the public domain, which keeps the work in some weird state where it's PD-unless-the-author-objects.

The only way to put a work into something that is somewhat similar to the public domain under German copyright (without dying and waiting for 70 years) is to publish it anonymously with a dedication to the public, so that redistribution etc is clear, and then remove all traces that you authored it (e.g. drafts, notes, ...) - and even then it falls back to you if somebody starts digging and finds proof of authorship (§66 (2) https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/urhg/__66.html, english translation https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_urhg/englisch_ur...). Any legal conscious redistributor wouldn't touch something like that with a 10 foot pole.

Just use CC0, it's cleaner.

As for

> Why do we think it can't be abandoned, again like any other property?

You can't sell yourself into slavery. That's the category personality rights operate in. Does it make sense for copyrights? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#46

It's too bad that PG is totally reader hostile. :-P It could be a great source for the readers of the world. Instead it's a bunch of unreadable text files that give "entrepreneurs" the raw material they need to put out a bunch of $1 ebooks.

PG's goal is the digitization and long-term storage of public-domain written materials, and I'm glad that's all they're doing.

I think you're looking for Standard Ebooks [0][1], which utilizes (usually) Project Gutenberg-sourced text, original-edition illustrations, and volunteer editors to create professional, free-as-in-beer ebooks.

[0] https://standardebooks.org/

[1] I tend to write, or only ever see, "eBooks", but Standard Ebooks styles it "Ebooks". That's the only thing I don't like about them, and I really really don't like it. Given my uncontroversial acceptance of the capitalization used when starting a sentence with the word "Email", I imagine I'll live.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#47

It's too bad that PG is totally reader hostile. :-P It could be a great source for the readers of the world. Instead it's a bunch of unreadable text files that give "entrepreneurs" the raw material they need to put out a bunch of $1 ebooks.

First: Browsing around the website, all books I could reach from the homepage or by searching for titles I could think of are available in multiple digital formats.

Second: PG is older than PDF, EPUB, MOBI, and even HTML. It isn't too surprising to me that there are works there that are text only.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And while I understand, that Project Gutenberg has limited resources and may have no desire to do the extra work of blocking works on a case by case basis, it would not have been difficult. Instead, they have chosen to collectively punish all people from Germany, which resulted us to be seven years without access, at least as long we did not utilize a VPN. They explain their rationale for this and it is a very soun…

Which international treaties were ignored by German courts in these cases?

The OP writes: "International treaties explicitly and unambiguously support PGLAF's legal guidance as described above: that the copyright status in one country is not impacted or enforceable or otherwise relevant in other countries. Plaintiff managed to find a German Court, and some precedents from Germany (and, after the lawsuit was filed, from the EU), which were willing to flaunt international treaties by developing a theory that PGLAF is under jurisdiction of the German Court system."

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#49
post #16
post #4

This is great news! This is a wonderful project, and the fact that it wasn't accessible from Germany made me profoundly sad and angry. I hope the responsible copyright lawyers have a hard time sleeping because of this and consider changing their line of work. If you are blocking people from reading books in the public domain, it is a good indication that you are one of the bad guys. Even worse, they only blocked peop…

In Germany, the concept of "Public Domain" does not exist. (EDIT: It may exist 70 years after the authors death). IANAL. Besides that, even if it would, the books would not have been in the Public Domain. From the announcement: > In Germany, they are copyrighted based on "life +70 years" of copyright protection (so, copyright will expire after 2020, 2025 and 2027, respectively). From a legal and business perspective,…

Why isn't the legislative not at fault if they have the power to change but won't? The reasons you cite for having this long copyright could apply anywhere. So what's the difference between Germany and the US. Shouldn't we want this changed everywhere.

I'm really trying hard not to whatabout this but tone of understanding at the copyright laws in Germany just got to me.

Re: Project Gutenberg is no longer fully blocked in Germany

#50
Waldorf Frommer is the lawyer firm that represents the publishing house S Fisher Verlag who brought project Gutenberg to court, WF are also notorious for mass-sending letters to supposed torrenters, threatening them with a lawsuit and asking for money ("Massenabmahnungen"). Glad that they lost. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frommer_Legal
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