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Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

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Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#41

From my perspective, this ability was generally assumed to be true but confirmation is interesting. Heck, it’s even a running stand-up joke. “Ask your wife if you can look up something on her phone. Google “How to kill your husband” and hand it back to her. Congrats, you’re safe for another month!

> Google “How to kill your husband” and hand it back to her. Congrats, you’re safe for another month! Sure, google's search results suck nowadays, but she could always just go to the library.

First 20 results are SEO sites with words Husband and Husbandry in them.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#42

Don't want to be swept up in a dragnet? Don't want to be a suspect based on normal everyday activities? Then you better not use Google, try DuckDuckGo or another private search engine. Edit: downvote all you want. dealing with google is like talking to the police, whatever you say/do will be used against you. in googles case for advertising/influencing you or by the government using the google gold mine. you can spar…

I've been de-googling my life as much as possible the last year. I think it's impossible to completely be rid of it but at least I feel I'm doing something. Moving important email to protonmail. I only use firefox and duckduckgo browsers. Pretty much exclusively using duckduckgo for search. I've installed a PiHole on my home network. I've switched to an iPhone... although I considering some custom android ROM now. Us…

> Moving important email to protonmail.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/secure-email-provider-protonma...

Protonmail literally gave up the personal info of some French activists who were later arrested...

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#43

Don't want to be swept up in a dragnet? Don't want to be a suspect based on normal everyday activities? Then you better not use Google, try DuckDuckGo or another private search engine. Edit: downvote all you want. dealing with google is like talking to the police, whatever you say/do will be used against you. in googles case for advertising/influencing you or by the government using the google gold mine. you can spar…

I've been de-googling my life as much as possible the last year. I think it's impossible to completely be rid of it but at least I feel I'm doing something. Moving important email to protonmail. I only use firefox and duckduckgo browsers. Pretty much exclusively using duckduckgo for search. I've installed a PiHole on my home network. I've switched to an iPhone... although I considering some custom android ROM now. Us…

YouTube and YouTube music are the only remnants of Google for me at the moment. With the occasional use if Facebooks messenger for a particular group of friends and WhatsApp. The later really annoys me, so. Turned getting rid of everything MS was much easier, privately that is, now that I don't need Excel anymore. My employer provided IT equipment is still MS, so.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#44
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, this appears to be a relatively new power. https://www.propublica.org/article/remember-when-the-patriot...

No, American courts can order the production of any kind of records, and always have done so. Law enforcement goes to the court, shows "probable cause" regarding a current case, swears to the facts of the case, and the court orders some third party to produce the information. The third party is obligated to comply or contest. This is the legal process to which people are due in the phrase "due process of law". The Se…

Also note that this legal theory only comes into play if they're compelled to do so. The police and investigators can always just kindly ask for records to be produced without a warrant and it's up to the institution to honor that request or not, much like how Google does its own review of law enforcement data requests in absence of a warrant.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#45

On one hand I totally believe that our privacy needs to be protected companies that facilitate government surveillance should be boycotted. On the other hand, the fact that no one can find Brian Laundrie indicates to be that generally government is incompetent and can’t mask all these things together to do anything really useful.

If he's in the belly of some crocodile, he's probably not using electronic devices.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#46

Don't want to be swept up in a dragnet? Don't want to be a suspect based on normal everyday activities? Then you better not use Google, try DuckDuckGo or another private search engine. Edit: downvote all you want. dealing with google is like talking to the police, whatever you say/do will be used against you. in googles case for advertising/influencing you or by the government using the google gold mine. you can spar…

Eric Schmidt, as Google CEO, had a habit of saying unpopular but true things. When he responded to a question about how people interact with Google with "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place," he wasn't so much offering self-criticism as a warning regarding the overall societal trend, of which Google was merely a part.

The context is often left out in that interview snippet, because he goes on to say "... but if you really need that kind of privacy, the reality is that search engines including Google do retain this information for some time, and it’s important, for example that we are all subject in the United States to the Patriot Act. It is possible that that information could be made available to the authorities."

Actions online leave a data trail. The US government has broad subpoena power to acquire that data trail. DDG is a smaller aggregation house, so it's less likely to be hit first, but I wouldn't assume that they don't retain routing info, IP addresses, etc. that could (with some difficulty) be collected and aggregated to narrow the search space for a person.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#47
post #36

Don't want to be swept up in a dragnet? Don't want to be a suspect based on normal everyday activities? Then you better not use Google, try DuckDuckGo or another private search engine. Edit: downvote all you want. dealing with google is like talking to the police, whatever you say/do will be used against you. in googles case for advertising/influencing you or by the government using the google gold mine. you can spar…

You say that as if DuckDuckGo is completely immune to the same sorts of warrants. They're all the same, serving you ads based on your search terms.

> You say that as if DuckDuckGo is completely immune to the same sorts of warrants.

If you don't collect data, you can't share it in a warrant.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#48
post #35

Don't want to be swept up in a dragnet? Don't want to be a suspect based on normal everyday activities? Then you better not use Google, try DuckDuckGo or another private search engine. Edit: downvote all you want. dealing with google is like talking to the police, whatever you say/do will be used against you. in googles case for advertising/influencing you or by the government using the google gold mine. you can spar…

Do you have any evidence that the same government orders were not given to DuckDuckGo? Or that they wouldn't be if DDG had any kind of meaningful market share?

If your goal is not to be seen, relying on things without meaningful market share is actually fine.

Security through obscurity is bad long-term, comprehensive strategy because it's unstable and not indefatigable... Not because it doesn't work in the short run and in one-off cases.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#49

From my perspective, this ability was generally assumed to be true but confirmation is interesting. Heck, it’s even a running stand-up joke. “Ask your wife if you can look up something on her phone. Google “How to kill your husband” and hand it back to her. Congrats, you’re safe for another month!

Yeah, honestly, this kind of thing slightly terrifies me. I know I have definitely Googled for totally random things that, when taken out of context, would look pretty bad. I remember once watching a show where someone was knocked out with chloroform, and I googled something like "Does chloroform really work?" or "Can you really knock someone out with chloroform?" I turned to my partner and joked "You better not be h…

I feel the same sometimes.

Every now and then I want to Google something a bit dubious, but decide against it, just in case. I mean, I've no intention of murdering anyone or anything like that, I'm just just a curious soul.

Re: Google keyword warrants give U.S. government data on search users

#50
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, American courts can order the production of any kind of records, and always have done so. Law enforcement goes to the court, shows "probable cause" regarding a current case, swears to the facts of the case, and the court orders some third party to produce the information. The third party is obligated to comply or contest. This is the legal process to which people are due in the phrase "due process of law". The Se…

It seems you are right. And other countries have long done similar or worse. I always thought that in the west you had a freedom of thought and could pursue whatever direction of research you wished without consequence. After all, without freedom of thought, you can't really have proper freedom of conscience, let alone freedom of speech. I'm slightly disturbed that apparently it's not quite that simple. Today I'm one…

Jeffbee is right, but I would also point out the number of hurdles identified. Before the patriot act there were 100% violations of personal liberty and restrictions on consumption of information but there were more hurdles.

The point of the post here isn't that Google is providing records (which they have always if the situation has been identified as appropriate by a judge + public safety + ....) but that they are providing a really high level, in no way targeted or restricted request for records

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