2006: Dwarf Fortress • Hacker News Board

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#41

Post by untech » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

INTPenis wrote: post #32

29athrowaway wrote: post #11

There are a few games inspired in Dwarf Fortress, such as Gnomeria and Rimworld, for audiences that are a more casual. Dwarf Fortress is hard to master.

Rimworld made me forget all my DF keyboard menu commands. From 2009 I had mastered DF keyboard shortcuts like a total maniac. But then I discovered Rimworld, I bought it when it wasn't even on Steam yet so the author e-mailed the download link to you. But I stopped playing when they introduced a bunch of royalty, ESP and religion. Now I'm waiting for the new DF UI in Steam because I wouldn't want to re-learn all the…

Well, “Royalty” adds quite interesting magic system, and “Ideology” adds belief systems, which are fun and are not required to be religious. You can have transhumanist female supremacists, who require their men to go around naked and really like weed parties.

Anyway, Royalty and Ideology are DLCs, so you can totally play without them.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#42

Post by klondike_klive » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

One thing I've never seen asked or answered is whether the name Bay 12 is a reference to the film Aliens - when Ripley picks up a crate with the loader and asks Apone "where do you want it?" he laughs and says "Bay twelve, please." Surely too obscure to be a coincidence?

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#43

Post by hughrlomas » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

triceratops wrote: post #33

I've tried playing DF a couple of times but gave up because it's too hard. Even though I couldn't "get" it, I'm glad it exists.

The upcoming steam release may help it be more accessible, you could retry then if you still have any interest.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#44

Post by dadro » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:32 PM UTC

29athrowaway wrote: post #11

There are a few games inspired in Dwarf Fortress, such as Gnomeria and Rimworld, for audiences that are a more casual. Dwarf Fortress is hard to master.

Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead also comes to mind. https://cataclysmdda.org/

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#45

Post by TuringTest » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

ZetaZero wrote: post #40

intended wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda liked the earlier version of the game, before guides and tools made it easier to get into. This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun. Before that I would always play in a manner that guaranteed success, re-loading if something went wrong. With DF it was either something going spectacularly wrong, or utter boredom when I decided to…

> This is not a dig on guides, its instead an appreciation for what the game taught me - the idea that losing could be fun. I disagree. Losing a game because of undocumented behavior or bugs has never been fun for me. Sid Meier - "A game is a series of interesting choices."

Different strokes for different folks. Though not every game benefits from having to discover its basic rules by trial and error, there is some appeal to it exploring the unknown when the game is designed around it. Scape rooms are a game genre, after all.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#46

Post by standardUser » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:37 PM UTC

sshagent wrote: post #10

roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

Nicely put. DF is simply the best game I've ever played, and I've been hooked by many from many genres. The stories told within are insane. I only play it every couple of years when the desire catches me, yet still patreon to DF. This is what games should be. Obviously an insane barrier of entry, took me a few goes to 'get it' and even now i barely get it despite playing many varingly 'fun' forts. I watched many yout…

I'm no stranger to involved and complicated games (Crusader Kings, Kerbal Space Program, as examples) but the Dwarf Fortress interface appeared to me to be some sort of elaborate ruse designed to test my patience, or to simply mock me. I'm glad the folks who have the patience to navigate those menus and decipher those "graphics" have rewarding experiences, but I'll wait for the Steam version with actual graphics, and god-willing a UI that isn't optimized to waste my time, before I give it another go.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#47

Post by gowld » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:43 PM UTC

Is there a self-playing/idle mode in Dwarf Fortress?

Where you set some initial conditions and then watch the world evolve without having to take care of it?

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#48

Post by dafoex » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:44 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #2

It is important, when contemplating Dwarf Fortress, to realise a couple of things. Firstly, and most obviously, the game is clearly some sort of work of art. The exact nature of the art is a bit difficult to pin down - certainly isn't an exercise in graphics and the plot is inconsistent between playthroughs - but nevertheless. The second thing to observe is it appears to be a life's work. A lifetime has not actually…

Art feels like the wrong word here. Art, to my mind, is impressive but ultimately gathers dust on a shelf. DF on the other hand is a complex machine that simulates whole worlds, and produces a different result each time you run it, and varies those results even more as you continue to interact.

Its a living world that grows and evolves with you, and shows its technical prowess not through anything as mundane as graphics, but instead through the very beating heart that makes it such an interesting machine. It demonstrates the author's skill, determination, and ongoing mastery of their craft. Dwarf Fortress is a masterpiece, but to call it simply art doesn't do it justice.

Losing is fun.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#49

Post by TOMDM » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:50 PM UTC

overcast wrote: post #17

The obligatory greatest bug report ever. Dwarf Fortress developer gets in depth about it. So great. The complexity of this game is mind boggling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAhHkJQ3KgY

I knew what this would be before I clicked and still ended up watching the whole story again.

I think it makes up the crux of what makes Dwarf Fort great.

You don't need two massive hideously complex systems, when hundreds of smaller ones that all interact are so much more satisfying.

Dwarf Fortress seems to do both though, many large systems with hundreds of smaller interactions that build up to the whole.

I really look forward to seeing where it ends up in a few decades.

Re: 2006: Dwarf Fortress

#50

Post by gunfighthacksaw » Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:55 PM UTC

Just an FYI for anyone who might be thinking of getting into the game.

It took me about 6 weeks playing along with the wiki to “git gud” enough to have a mostly stable fort. I used tilesets for eye candy and eventually moved to some of the memory hacking tools like dwarf therapist for a better management UI.

YMMV but if you are thinking “gosh it’s too complicated for me” just be patient with it and don’t be afraid to read the vast amount of documentation around the game.

DF is an extremely rewarding mindf*ck. It’s probably the only game now that I can get so immersed that I blow past my bedtime and spend the next day, fatigued, thinking of what to try in game next.