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Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

microsoftedge.github.io

41–50 of 67 posts

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#41
post #23

I dare it - turn off JavaScript!? Websites doesn't require JavaScript, what really needs JavaScript are Singe-Page-Web-Apps-Somethings with anti-patterns like infinite scrolling. You get two things in return, a "super duper" fast web and a more secure web-browser. For example Amazon supports usage without JavaScript very well. Another experience is Stackoverflow, things like the preview and highlighting doesn't work.…

How do Luddites like you still exist?

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does break searching for content within a web page.

Ok, but the content wouldn't be there (and thus searchable) either if the website used pagination, no?

In that scenario, I search the page, and if it's not found, I go to the next page and search there. Repeat to the end.

That algorithm breaks on infinite scroll.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it an antipattern either - it literally does exactly what the programmer wants, but it's definitely a dark pattern. Most of us humans have an urge to finish things, but infinite scroll by definition never finishes. This increases engagement of users by utilizing their psychology, which is basically the definition of a dark pattern. There is an argument to be made that it also increases usability, so i…

Infinite scroll is a tool. Your problem is with pointless dark-pattern ridden attention-grabbing social media using that tool (and rightfully so!). Now imagine a useful application, like an email program. Infinite scroll is useful there. Imagine having a paginated inbox!

I prefer a paginated inbox, its that way in gmail for me (maybe I turned on some setting years ago?).

The pagination is a nice break and lets me know I am done, everything on back pages has been previously processed.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#44
post #23

I dare it - turn off JavaScript!? Websites doesn't require JavaScript, what really needs JavaScript are Singe-Page-Web-Apps-Somethings with anti-patterns like infinite scrolling. You get two things in return, a "super duper" fast web and a more secure web-browser. For example Amazon supports usage without JavaScript very well. Another experience is Stackoverflow, things like the preview and highlighting doesn't work.…

What I find most interesting as a JavaScript developer is that almost no open source projects will touch the stupidity of giant SPA frameworks. Seriously, if you are writing software on your own time why burn that time away digging in the trash? On the contrary JavaScript developers that don’t contribute to open source cannot write two lines of code without some disgustingly bloated framework and a million dependenci…

Yeah dude this overgeneralisation is not cool. I'm a JS dev, and you're insinuating that since I don't write FOSS, I am a brainless monkey who glues frameworks together. Classic elitism, and it shows your hand as a gatekeeper. Not cool.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#45
post #26
post #23

I dare it - turn off JavaScript!? Websites doesn't require JavaScript, what really needs JavaScript are Singe-Page-Web-Apps-Somethings with anti-patterns like infinite scrolling. You get two things in return, a "super duper" fast web and a more secure web-browser. For example Amazon supports usage without JavaScript very well. Another experience is Stackoverflow, things like the preview and highlighting doesn't work.…

I'm 100% on board with this line of thinking, but the edge case that the business keeps complaining about is being able to push async events to the client. How would we accomplish this sort of UX without javascript?

For this edge case I suggest handling JavaScript like Webcam-Access, if a website wants to use it they can and need to convince the users. So we have an agreement between both sides :)

I foster myself some weird JavaSript to allow hardware-access. But I think business itself should not be the driving force for the technical development and society.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it an antipattern either - it literally does exactly what the programmer wants, but it's definitely a dark pattern. Most of us humans have an urge to finish things, but infinite scroll by definition never finishes. This increases engagement of users by utilizing their psychology, which is basically the definition of a dark pattern. There is an argument to be made that it also increases usability, so i…

Infinite scroll is a tool. Your problem is with pointless dark-pattern ridden attention-grabbing social media using that tool (and rightfully so!). Now imagine a useful application, like an email program. Infinite scroll is useful there. Imagine having a paginated inbox!

Dark pattern would probably a better naming. Infinite scroll works, you're right. For example every file-browser or mail-program, which show you the visible portion on screen and at same time scrolling through all items. On the web infinite-scroll is often used to load and reload stuff and you often cannot link to an item directly.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't call it an antipattern either - it literally does exactly what the programmer wants, but it's definitely a dark pattern. Most of us humans have an urge to finish things, but infinite scroll by definition never finishes. This increases engagement of users by utilizing their psychology, which is basically the definition of a dark pattern. There is an argument to be made that it also increases usability, so i…

Infinite scroll is a tool. Your problem is with pointless dark-pattern ridden attention-grabbing social media using that tool (and rightfully so!). Now imagine a useful application, like an email program. Infinite scroll is useful there. Imagine having a paginated inbox!

Wait, is there a way to make Gmail scroll? Always had an issue with pagination in Gmail.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#48
post #39
post #23

I dare it - turn off JavaScript!? Websites doesn't require JavaScript, what really needs JavaScript are Singe-Page-Web-Apps-Somethings with anti-patterns like infinite scrolling. You get two things in return, a "super duper" fast web and a more secure web-browser. For example Amazon supports usage without JavaScript very well. Another experience is Stackoverflow, things like the preview and highlighting doesn't work.…

I'm using uBlock Origin more or less in nightmare mode ( https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Blocking-mode:-nightm... ): all 3rd party stuff blocked, inline and 1st party scripts blocked. Some websites work out of the box and I love them, but too many still want me to enable 1st party scripts and 3rd party resources to at least display correctly even though most of the content I'm consuming is text. This is also o…

HackerNews would not really work in gemeni though as there are too strict limitation on how long urls can be and the only way to send data is by appending it to the url.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#49
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming "trusted websites" is a user preference, why should it matter?

Because "defaults are forever" or something like that. Most people won't alter those settings, so whatever is "trusted by default" will run faster. The average user will just note that some sites are very fast, while others are very slow.

Everything’s a trade off, but this one is worth trying imho.

There are lots of things could be done to even the playing field. Eg require all browsers to come “out of the box” with with zero sites trusted.

This would incentivise regular sites to not use heavy JS, if they knew they won’t be JITed by default.

And by all means, if you use say Salesforce, by all means trust the site. But that tiny bit of friction is a good thing imho, analogous to running ‘chmod +x’ on Unix.

In general, I think it’s time to say that browsers should have a more refined security model, and letting every darn site on the internet access to run code on your computer is maybe not a great idea.

Re: Microsoft Edge Experimenting with a Super Duper Secure Mode

#50
post #20

Web pages where compilation costs and benefits are short may be one thing. But what about cached code? And what about real applications running in the browser?

We have come a long road to establish transparent protocols to run stuff on our browsers (HTML, JavaScript, CSS, JSON, HTTP protocol), yet we are going to towards compiled binary code, towards black-box schema. The users will have less power of the content on their browsers with compiled code and something like ad blockers become challenging to implement again. I'm not really big fan of this trend. For example Google…

Because the Web should never had turned into a general purpose VM, HTML 4 was more than enough for interactive documents.

For something we do have networking protocols.

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