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Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

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Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#41
post #29

While from a technology point of view this is very interesting, I would really prefer an option to pay a reasonable subscription fee to have adverts turned off for me. Before Facebook bought WhatsApp it actually used to require a small annual fee, but it was removed. Alas, I fear that as tends be the case with advertising companies, they know that the willing to pay users are the most valuable advert audience, so are…

I keep telling people that YouTube Premium is the most cost effective membership there is, and they look at me like I'm crazy. Since I got it YouTube has become a service I genuinely love.

This is a bigger thing on reddit it seems, where I assume more readers are teenagers with little/no income.

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#42

What's that quote again from that early engineer? The smartest, highest paid engineers, and they fucking work on making you view more ads. We're living in an embarrassing era of massively misallocated resources.

This is even more true today, with a decade of research into the ROI of advertising showing that it isn't even making money for those who buy it. What a sad waste of energy and imagination. We can do better.

Can we?

As Churchill said, democracy is the worst form of government -- except for all the others which have been tried. Similarly, capitalism is the worst form of economics -- except for all the others which have been tried. I mean, it's obvious to an external observer that a prisoner's dilemma, sub-optimal Nash equilibrium, or other coordination problem can best be solved by all sides cooperating. But the reason they're called dilemmas and problems is that there's no clear way for participants in the system to solve them.

It's not like anyone actually likes the system. But no one has (nor could be trusted to use) the power to coordinate an action of the sort that could end it. This is just the state of the world right now, we opened Pandora's box with web technology and pulled out the undesirable factoid "It's lucrative to run individual profiling and sell ads." Society has a limited ability to push an agenda against incentives; pushing past tech giant privacy invasion and attention abuse is not something we are capable of doing right now.

I think the only thing that can be hoped to change this equilibrium is to change the playing field. Change technology, improving adblockers, anti-tracking tools, and encryption. Educate kids and those willing to listen about the harms of advertising. The current generations of adult Americans grew up with roadside, TV, and radio ads, they view web ads as an extension of that and don't think about the privacy implications of that, but a kid who grows up in the Internet era aware that their activity is tracked and profiled (unless they use particular encryption tech and VPNs) will have a very different attitude, and perhaps eventually this abuse will be unprofitable.

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#43

While from a technology point of view this is very interesting, I would really prefer an option to pay a reasonable subscription fee to have adverts turned off for me. Before Facebook bought WhatsApp it actually used to require a small annual fee, but it was removed. Alas, I fear that as tends be the case with advertising companies, they know that the willing to pay users are the most valuable advert audience, so are…

uBlock origin.

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#44
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another comment mentioned, they're talking about using a technique that allows you to perform computations on encrypted data, with encrypted results output - the thing doing the computation never sees any decrypted data. So they could target advertisements but, as far as I can tell, they wouldn't be able to know which advertisements were served ... until the phone makes a request to download them, which seems to m…

My understanding is that homomorphic encryption allows one to transform encrypted data, but the data is still encrypted (random noise). i.e: decrypt(encrypt(x+1)) == decrypt(encrypt(x) +1) This does not allow you to get any information about X, only perform computations with it. If advertisers are getting information out of encrypted data, that means the encryption is broken.

> If advertisers are getting information out of encrypted data, that means the encryption is broken.

I'm just suggesting that Facebook wants to use homomorphic encryption to tell your phone which adverts to download. It won't know which adverts it told you to download or why ... but it will know that you've downloaded them once you do.

It could in theory serve the adverts through homomorphic encryption, but then it wouldn't be able to invoice people based on how many times their adverts were served. I don't see that happening though.

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another comment mentioned, they're talking about using a technique that allows you to perform computations on encrypted data, with encrypted results output - the thing doing the computation never sees any decrypted data. So they could target advertisements but, as far as I can tell, they wouldn't be able to know which advertisements were served ... until the phone makes a request to download them, which seems to m…

You mean like zk proofs?

I mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homomorphic_encryption : )

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#47
post #27

> Update: Will Cathcart, head of WhatsApp, has tweeted in response to The Information's report that WhatsApp is not exploring the use of homomorphic encryption. Cathcart states that there should be skepticism of "technical claims that apps like ours could see messages in "good" cases only." There is no way to match advertising keywords in encrypted content without also allowing matches of arbitrary keywords, at which…

> There is no way to match advertising keywords in encrypted content

Complete tangent, since this has nothing to do with what Facebook are looking into here, but:

If you control both ends of the connection (like Facebook does in WhatsApp), you can match on advertising keywords securely. By doing it client-side, after the text is decrypted.

As I understand it, this is essentially what Apple's iAds framework does: all possible advertising content that could be run in an iAd view gets pre-cached on the client; the iAds framework—running inside the client's address space—then chooses what to show the user, selecting ads based on demographic/interest information it has available locally on the device, never leaked outside. The iAd framework then collects just the impression metrics — how many times each ad was shown to a given user — and then every-so-often batches those metrics out to Apple's servers. Apple then reports re-groups and anonymizes these metrics, and reports them to the advertiser / charges the advertiser for them.

Of course, this means that advertisers need to be able to trust Apple's impression reporting; and to do that, they need to trust that Apple has set up iOS devices so that iAd selection + reporting is basically inviolable, such that nobody on the client end is generating false impressions. (Or, at least, that devices generating such impressions can be detected as being jailbroken through some mechanism, and so their iAd impression reports culled from the corpus.)

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#48
This should not be possible, or must be considered crypto analysis right away. An encryption is build by design such that it is not possible to obtain any knowledge of the content of the encrypted message (or series of consecutive encrypted messages). If I can make some assumptions about an encrypted message (i.e. its content, the authors interesets etc.) the encryption is flawed by definition.

Re: Facebook reportedly researching ways to use encrypted WhatsApp messages for ads

#50
I'm not very well versed in encryption but I know many here are and wanted to see if how I imagined this has any merit -

is this something where WhatsApp could encrypt messages word by word instead of by message, and keep a list of the hashes of top sent words and their counts somewhere, then facebook would send some ads directory to WhatsApp clients, where they'd encrypt each keyword in the dictionary, and then compare the dictionary hashes to the top send word hashes, and try to make a match on the client side for specific ads to show?

Or is this more that full encrypted messages would be scanned for some type of needle in the haystack that could infer some value about what's being sent?

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