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First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

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Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#41

Post by brudgers »

While in the short term, Android and iOS are having an impact, RIM's longterm fate is affected by Windows Phone 7 because that is the easiest Mobile OS upon which Enterprise can standardize comfortably - iOS is just too consumer centric [e.g. three year obsolescence] and has a history of sloppy security practices [e.g. lying to Exchange], and Android is somewhat fragmented due to diversity of device capabilities and does not give a high priority to integration with the Microsoft stack.

All the things RIM does well for enterprise, Windows Phone is likely to do better over the long term. And with Nokia getting set to leverage their existing reputation for quality on top of WP7, it is hard to see what RIM can bring to the table when it comes time to convince IT. [http://www.cio.com/article/501815/iPhone_3.1_Breaking_Exchan...]

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#42

Post by dantheman »

MikeCapone wrote: post #37
IsaacL wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term is 'disruptive innovation'. It's an often misunderstood concept - the key point is that not all innovation is disruptive. The defining feature of disruptive innovations is that they are initially worse than the technology they displace, but as they are significantly cheaper they allow the tech to reach new markets. Since the iPhone was a high-end product, it can't be called disruptive.

"Since the iPhone was a high-end product, it can't be called disruptive." Do you have a suggestion of what it should be called, then? Sounds disruptive to me.

revolutionary or evolutionary - depending on your perspective; though I'd say the android is disruptive to the GPS market

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#43

Post by somebear »

andrewcross wrote: post #35
programminggeek wrote: post #6

I don't think I've ever seen a company cut employees en masse like this truly help a company come from behind to regain their former status. It sends so many wrong messages. If those 10% of your company aren't worthwhile, why were they hired and employed in the first place? If management can afford to cut staff by 10%, the C and VP level management should be fired. Start by cutting at the top, not at the bottom. Cutt…

From one of my friends who worked at RIM on a co-op job less than a year ago: "I definitely saw a lot of redundant jobs and am not surprised they're cutting this many". They were hiring anyone and everyone they could for a while there, so I think this is a good move. Keep the best employees are double down on them.

In these situations it's just hard to be sure you are keeping the best employees.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#44

Post by eric-hu »

Silhouette wrote: post #16

Wasn't there an open letter from a senior staffer at RIM just a few days ago, which spelt out the problems on the ground and what needed to be done about them in brutally honest fashion, which was promptly brushed under the carpet (or not) by RIM PR? It seems like the rank and file staff at RIM get it, but the top level management don't, which is a sufficient condition to know how the story ends. Edit: Yes, here it i…

I was thinking of the same thing when I read this. To be fair, one of the letter's suggestions was that they hold people accountable for failed products. Excerpt:

"Just because someone may have been a loyal RIM employee for 7 years, it doesn’t mean they are the best Manager / Director / VP for that role"

...although maybe they're doing the reverse...

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#45

Post by dasil003 »

IsaacL wrote: post #33
phuff wrote: post #8

I am not fully versed in the notion of innovative disruption, but it seems pretty obvious that a Clay Christensen-esque Innovator's Dilemma disruption is what's going on here: somebody had a decent product, is first to market, but doesn't have a clear enough vision to see how to stay on top and stay innovative and gets blindsided by unexpected (read Apple + Android) competitors. I wonder how closely the non-cliff not…

The term is 'disruptive innovation'. It's an often misunderstood concept - the key point is that not all innovation is disruptive. The defining feature of disruptive innovations is that they are initially worse than the technology they displace, but as they are significantly cheaper they allow the tech to reach new markets. Since the iPhone was a high-end product, it can't be called disruptive.

Why does something have to be cheaper to be disruptive? What if it's the same cost but better? Were automobiles cheaper than horses and buggies?

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#46

Post by bergie »

doctoboggan wrote: post #25

Nokia has been a company since 1865, so it might take more than this to stop them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia

And they've done a lot of amazing turnarounds, from paper mills to rubber boots to cables to TVs to mobile phones. But this is the first time they surrender the decision making power of the company to a third party, Microsoft.

That may make adapting to changing situations harder.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#47

Post by bergie »

cfgvjkljhgfb wrote: post #26
hello_moto wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, CEO of the year for you sir. If things would be as easy as that, flip to Android and compete with the rest... to the bottom. How would you differentiate yourself vs HTC, Motorola, etc? What if the Chinese android handsets comes up with cheap mobile phones similar to BB hardware interface (the golden keyboard, you know that BB users love BB because of the keyboard). Switching to Android makes RIM an average compa…

So by the same logic, Porsche and Ferrari should stop making gasoline powered cars with 4wheels in a race to the bottom with kia/hyundai - and switch to 6 wheel cars powered by waterwheels?

Porche and Ferrari cars (well, most of them, not of the racing variety) can run on the same gasoline and the same roads as the KIAs and Hyundais.

This is very similar, actually, to having better hardware and nicer UX layer on top of a common platform where all devices can run the same apps.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#48

Post by RexRollman »

aculver wrote: post #39
VladRussian wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as a former multi-year employee of a formerly glorious company that fell victim of its self-denial to recognize a paradigm shift i can say that employees can blame only themselves.

Yeah, I agree. The parent post makes it sound like there is some other force in a company that can be blamed other than the employees. I suppose someone might say "management", but to me it's all the same.

From what I've seen, many companies do not listen to their employees, especially as they get larger. RIM in particular strikes me as a company where its employees have no voice.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#49

Post by wmil »

brudgers wrote: post #41

While in the short term, Android and iOS are having an impact, RIM's longterm fate is affected by Windows Phone 7 because that is the easiest Mobile OS upon which Enterprise can standardize comfortably - iOS is just too consumer centric [e.g. three year obsolescence] and has a history of sloppy security practices [e.g. lying to Exchange], and Android is somewhat fragmented due to diversity of device capabilities and…

To be fair, every mobile device that Microsoft released was supposed to destroy RIM. I'm still not convinced that Microsoft can pull of a decent phone with full Exchange integration.

Re: First Nokia, Now RIM: The Mighty Are Falling

#50

Post by hello_moto »

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #40
hello_moto wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, CEO of the year for you sir. If things would be as easy as that, flip to Android and compete with the rest... to the bottom. How would you differentiate yourself vs HTC, Motorola, etc? What if the Chinese android handsets comes up with cheap mobile phones similar to BB hardware interface (the golden keyboard, you know that BB users love BB because of the keyboard). Switching to Android makes RIM an average compa…

Samsung in on pace to become the #1 seller of phones in the world and the #1 seller of smartphones in the world. I don't have access to their numbers since they're a private company, but from what they report their revenue and profits dwarf that of RIM.

Most Asia-based manufacturers can have lower cost than any North America-based manufacturers. Just ask Broadcom whether they're feeling the heat from Taiwan-based manufacturers.

Race to the bottom doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing if you can produce the cheapest alternatives. But it is bad if you can't do that.

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