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Courtney Love does the math (2000)

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Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#41
I have a promising start-up, with several hundred users in specific geographic locations. I will need "$4.6m" to scale, and I want to take out $1m for the cofounders.

In our market, 32,000 such companies launch each year, and of those, only 250 generate more than $200,000 in revenue. Only 30 generate $20m.

What is a fair percentage to offer the VCs?

Yes, I appreciate that there are many differences between bands and start-ups, but if, as she says, only 250 of 32,000 albums sell more than 10,000 units, then this $10m the record company makes from her band must go, in a large part, to cover the costs of funding all the bands that dont make it. Maybe they are still making a handsome profit, but its not as unjust as she makes out.

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#42
Wow, what a read! Thanks!

1. Related: Michael Jackson calls head of Sony, his record distributor, a devil. What a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt6zVypo72E

2. Love’s thesis: Through lobbying and collusion, the big labels (she calls them distributors) essentially own artists, which she calls “slaves” and “sharecroppers.” Following, an excerpt from the Sponsorships section.

> When I agreed to allow a large cola company to promote a live show, I couldn't have been more miserable. They screwed up every single thing imaginable. The venue was empty but sold out. There were thousands of people outside who wanted to be there, trying to get tickets. And there were the empty seats the company had purchased for a lump sum and failed to market because they were clueless about music.

> It was really dumb. You had to buy the cola. You had to dial a number. You had to press a bunch of buttons. You had to do all this crap that nobody wanted to do. Why not just bring a can to the [venue] door?

> … They were a condescending bunch of little guys. They treated me like I was an ungrateful little bitch who should be groveling for the experience to play for their damn soda.

> I ended up playing without my shirt on and ordering a six-pack of the rival cola onstage. Also lots of unwholesome cursing and nudity occurred. This way I knew that no matter how tempting the cash was, they'd never do business with me again.

> If you want some little obedient slave content provider, then fine. But I think most musicians don't want to be responsible for your clean-cut, wholesome, all-American, sugar corrosive cancer-causing, all white people, no women allowed sodapop images.

> Nor, on the converse, do we want to be responsible for your vice-inducing, liver-rotting, child-labor-law-violating, all white people, no-women-allowed booze images.

And that may be the least interesting part of the screed.

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#43

I do not disagree with Courtney Love that the system is not great for artists but the solution is probably not in the distribution method, or the structure of the financing. It is most likely in solving the cost problem. If it costs $500,000 to produce a record, like she says it does, that would create limited room for a great number of bands and artist to record. The market size ($s of world wide discretionary incom…

I think the cost problem has largely been solved. Someone can throw together a DAW for $2 or $3k and start creating really great sounding music following hours of practice. I think most young musicians know about and go this route when they are learning.

The world Courtney Love is from is the old world, where you needed a specialist to do all these different jobs. You needed to pay a producer, engineers, buy studio time (sometimes these are packaged but the more well known the pricier, and acts like Hole use well known outfits), this is what drives costs up. Not to mention marketting, distribution, etc.

In today's world a poor musician who wants to record and distribute his or her music can, and the best of them will be able to demand a price, or merchandise.

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#44
post #19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bad about Green Day -- it was the Offspring I was thinking about (can't blame me, they're almost interchangeable as bands). On the other hand, rockers with PhDs: Dexter Holland from Offspring (molecular biology, but dropped out with a masters) Greg Gaffin from Bad Religion (zoology, 2007) Brian May from Queen (astrophysics) James Lilja from Offspring (medical degree, not PhD) Sterling Morrison from the Velvet Unde…

Jeff 'Skunk' Baxter of Steely Dan and the Doobie Brothers has worked for NASA or the NSA on missile defense systems or something like that.

"Some person worked for some agency on something, or something"? Thanks for the well-researched comment.

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#45
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I don't think anyone in Green Day has a PhD. Second, I wasn't surprised because she was a women, or a musician, or because she was part of the grunge scene. I know there are lots of smart women, and lots of smart women in music. I wasn't saying anything about a correlation between gender and intelligence or professions and intelligence. I was suprised because she's Courtney Love, and most of what I've read and…

My bad about Green Day -- it was the Offspring I was thinking about (can't blame me, they're almost interchangeable as bands). On the other hand, rockers with PhDs: Dexter Holland from Offspring (molecular biology, but dropped out with a masters) Greg Gaffin from Bad Religion (zoology, 2007) Brian May from Queen (astrophysics) James Lilja from Offspring (medical degree, not PhD) Sterling Morrison from the Velvet Unde…

Juli Crockett of the Evangenitals is only an overdue (philosophy) dissertation away (and now that she's pregnant she may never get the damn thing finished).

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#46
post #43

I do not disagree with Courtney Love that the system is not great for artists but the solution is probably not in the distribution method, or the structure of the financing. It is most likely in solving the cost problem. If it costs $500,000 to produce a record, like she says it does, that would create limited room for a great number of bands and artist to record. The market size ($s of world wide discretionary incom…

I think the cost problem has largely been solved. Someone can throw together a DAW for $2 or $3k and start creating really great sounding music following hours of practice. I think most young musicians know about and go this route when they are learning. The world Courtney Love is from is the old world, where you needed a specialist to do all these different jobs. You needed to pay a producer, engineers, buy studio t…

Can you give an example of a band that recorded a CD for $3K? I'm curious what that sounds like.

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#47

I can't believe Courtney Love wrote this. I had a low oppinion of her, but this seems really well written. Also, she's a fan of Neal Stephenson? That quote almost makes me wonder if this were written by some nerd and attributed to her...

I've managed a couple passing conversations while she was staying in SoHo NYC and she definitely has an idea of what she wants out of things but I can't say there wasn't an amount of fakeness to the whole situation (recalling the defamation lawsuit in this case). To her credit, she explains things very well and certainly doesn't give in lightly to things. I guess it takes an extremely determined personality to live her life.

I'm convinced that she knows the record label situation well but it was probably after having the same conversation many times with many other folks in the industry. Still, none of that is necessarily a bad thing nor does it make this a poor piece of writing (regardless of any editors).

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#48
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the cost problem has largely been solved. Someone can throw together a DAW for $2 or $3k and start creating really great sounding music following hours of practice. I think most young musicians know about and go this route when they are learning. The world Courtney Love is from is the old world, where you needed a specialist to do all these different jobs. You needed to pay a producer, engineers, buy studio t…

Can you give an example of a band that recorded a CD for $3K? I'm curious what that sounds like.

I was looking for the web site, but a couple I know who sing typically folk songs put out a Christmas Album on CD and it cost them less than $5K for a production master and a bunch of copies of the CD.

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#49

I can't believe Courtney Love wrote this. I had a low oppinion of her, but this seems really well written. Also, she's a fan of Neal Stephenson? That quote almost makes me wonder if this were written by some nerd and attributed to her...

Don't worry, she basically plagiarized it from Steve Albini. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=79162

(I still find it really satisfying when I google for something I know is true and find myself as the #1 advocate of it on Google -- in this case the search "steve albini courtney love plagiarism")

Re: Courtney Love does the math (2000)

#50
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the cost problem has largely been solved. Someone can throw together a DAW for $2 or $3k and start creating really great sounding music following hours of practice. I think most young musicians know about and go this route when they are learning. The world Courtney Love is from is the old world, where you needed a specialist to do all these different jobs. You needed to pay a producer, engineers, buy studio t…

Can you give an example of a band that recorded a CD for $3K? I'm curious what that sounds like.

What people can do and what they do do are a little different. I can't think of anyone who stopped building their rig at $3k, but it's possible to produce demo-quality records with a $600 computer, a nice A/D/A converter and software like Reason, or Ableton. All of which can be purchased with $3k. I personally own about $10k of recording gear and instruments, and I've never made a penny off any of it and don't regret the purchase.

That aside, the guy who recorded the "Owl City" records started out by releasing tracks from his parent's basement while working at Coca-Cola. Imogen Heap I think started off on home recording gear and recorded her entire first album herself. Also check out YouTube for Ronald Jenkies, that will give you an idea of what you can accomplish with a modern workstation, which will run you $3k new, decently equipped.

Edit: It has also occurred to me that if you're a band, and you can perform your music well (everything in 1 take), you can probably buy enough studio time to get a good sounding album for under $3k. I can't think of any specific music this applies to, but a great deal of grunge music in the 90s was recorded in this kind of a scenario.

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