Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#41

Post by hn8788 » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

Ironlink wrote: post #35

boomboomsubban wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though I can't read the actual report, this article does not support your claims. >Apparently also a list of numbers under surveillance by Dutch intelligence was found in possession of Huawei. Which was clearly well beyond those boundaries Wouldn't the ones running the network need to know which numbers were under surveillance to provide the intelligence agency access?

The article says: > The company gained unauthorized access to the heart of the mobile network from China. ... but then, in the very next sentence: > How often that happened is not clear because it was not recorded anywhere. This wording is a bit unclear. The first sentence states as a matter of fact that there was unauthorized access, while the second states that there are no records.

It might mean not officially recorded anywhere, like an intelligence agency gave them a heads up about it, but the network admins at the company didn't see anything with their monitoring software.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#42

Post by de6u99er » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

I'd like to remind everybody of the Snowden revelations.

Maybe the real issue is, that US intelligence agencies are not able to force Huawei to add backdoors into their equipment.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#43

Post by someonehere » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

Do you even know how businesses are supposed to operate in China if they’re from the outside? My understanding from a security friend is there are all these hurdles and the Chinese government wants access to networks and source code for anything that’s operating within the country.

Also, there have been plenty of stories on HN where American businesses are ripped off by China knockoffs and there’s no way to really sue them or stop them in court. China has its claws in everything.

Everything that’s based out of China should be considered an entity working for the government. Even Huawei

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#44

Post by kube-system » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:19 PM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #9

I dunno how newsworthy the "Huawei" part of this is. The options seem to be go with a local provider or accept some level of risk of exfiltrated data. For example, nobody is pretending that Cisco is trustworthy. I'm sure the Chinese spies made off with some stuff that they shouldn't have because they'd be stupid not to - but if anything this sounds so brazen that I assume the access was mostly for routine tech suppor…

Everything has risk, but that doesn't mean that all risk is equal. There are a lot of things to consider when evaluating the risk of any vendor, even domestic vendors.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#45

Post by MrsPeaches » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:21 PM UTC

1cvmask wrote: post #10

So there is no story, but a potential story on a potential (fill in the blanks) So you outsourced some services as many companies do and failed to keep tabs on it, just like many companies do. Forgetting to audit outsourced work is extremely prevalent. A report by Capgemini, a leading Western supplier for outsourced personnel to telecommuncations companies. No conflict of interest there.

> A report by Capgemini, a leading Western supplier for outsourced personnel to telecommuncations companies. No conflict of interest there.

Way to bury the lede! [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgemini

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#46

Post by toyg » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

hn8788 wrote: post #41

Ironlink wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says: > The company gained unauthorized access to the heart of the mobile network from China. ... but then, in the very next sentence: > How often that happened is not clear because it was not recorded anywhere. This wording is a bit unclear. The first sentence states as a matter of fact that there was unauthorized access, while the second states that there are no records.

It might mean not officially recorded anywhere, like an intelligence agency gave them a heads up about it, but the network admins at the company didn't see anything with their monitoring software.

Or the admins saw it once and then revoked privileges - you know it happened at least once and probably more, but you don't know how many more.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#47

Post by nafizh » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

This kind of ignorance about the CCP machine and its surreptitious control over any and every company from China has led to the current situation where China is committing a genocide out in front of the world without any consequence. For starter, I would suggest reading the book 'The Party'.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#48

Post by m00x » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

Because you hire someone, it gives them the right to steal your IP? What?

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#49

Post by retox » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

Isn't the problem that if you are competitive with China they will steal the designs anyway, and potentially use any saved research capital to make improvements? You'll always be at a disadvantage if you're you're paying for your own competitors R&D.

I do agree that manufacturing should come back on-shore to close that gap at least.

Re: Huawei was able to eavesdrop on Dutch mobile network KPN: Report

#50

Post by themodelplumber » Sun, Apr 18, 2021, 10:25 PM UTC

game_the0ry wrote: post #33

American, here. Given that there is no hard proof that Huawei actually spies on their customers and that Huawei critics use the same talking points in the media to criticize Huawei and China, I am starting believe that this is not about China as a threat. That they could be a threat is not the same as the being a threat. Rather, Western leaders no longer have the willingness or belief that we can compete in tech with…

I agree; at the very least it'd be nice to see less fear-mongering.

Especially with modern, acculturated tech, the democratic world ought to be doing acrobatic flips and twists off each and every "where'd Jack Ma go" springboard news event that comes out of modern China. Those are leverage points, they are the dragon's missing armor plates.

Tech comparison alone though...if you make it out to be a logistics-only game, as many in government do, then I can see why things would get depressing fast. Tech & culture integration is a huge accomplishment of the modern world and we ought to leverage it, even in the service of shoring up or solving logistics issues.