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iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

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41–50 of 111 posts

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#41
>PSL is maintained by volunteers and there should be zero expectation of turnaround times on PR (and a respect for the labor burden shifted onto them by orgs using PSL as a bozofilter)

What is to stop Facebook from assigning an engineering team to act as volunteers so the turnaround time drops to zero?

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#42
post #9

This followup issue seems to have a more clear writeup, especially for someone like me who is a bit out of the loop when it comes to the PSL: https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issue...

While it does have quite a bit of details, this followup issue is clearly written by someone from FB or one of the other AdCos who wants to point the finger back at Apple. The tone and wording used here is rather rich and entitled.

[deleted]

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#43
post #9

This followup issue seems to have a more clear writeup, especially for someone like me who is a bit out of the loop when it comes to the PSL: https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issue...

While it does have quite a bit of details, this followup issue is clearly written by someone from FB or one of the other AdCos who wants to point the finger back at Apple. The tone and wording used here is rather rich and entitled.

Ben Savage is a pretty high-level engineer from Facebook's Ads org

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#44
post #27

I’m just here to point the finger at Facebook, or anyone, for finding this workaround of declaring your legitimate website as a domain suffix just for tracking entropy purposes this is so laughable. like my ford fiesta identifies as an apache attack helicopter

Apple is the one that declared this list to be the source of truth. Facebook is just information customers of Apple's decision.......

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#45
post #36

Isn’t the easiest solution here for companies to register their own domain? Why be company.service.tld and not just company.tld? What are these businesses doing for email?

In this case I think the issue is trackers. If you owned a retargeting or tracking service, you might have customer1.retargetting.com and customer2.retargetting.com. Apple will now see these as being the same site, unless individually registered in PSL. This limits the amount of data that can be aggregated by retargetting.com, unless each subdomain is added to PSL.

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#46
post #2

> It is inappropriate for presence or absense in PSL to be used by Facebook as a means to include or reject entries due to the IOS14 change, as PSL is not any form of security screen whatsoever, and the volunteer team maintaining the PSL is receiving the burden of being a sieve for the changes on interaction between those systems, which is taxing our resources. > The ONLY validation performed by PSL volunteers and Gi…

The existence of multiple independent definitions for eTLD+1 would be very likely to create security holes, via a Confused Deputy-type scenario.

If I was a security researcher, or a blackhat, and I found that bar.example is on the Mozilla PSL, and so Firefox considers foo.bar.example and quux.bar.example to be separate sites - while it isn't on the Apple PSL and so Apple's APIs treat foo.bar.example and quux.bar.example as parts of the same site (or vice versa), then I know I'm going to find weird bugs where Apple and the Firefox browser understand things about these two names differently and I can likely exploit that.

The preference from PSL team members is to do less with this hack over time, to put it behind us. But alas instead it motivates people to turn a hand-wavy notion "You know, a web site" into further reliance on the PSL instead of actually building a robust solution to their problem.

This is particularly inexcusable from Apple because it's not like Apple is hurting for resources. If they actually wanted to solve problems, they could put the work in; so I think we can conclude they weren't much interested in solving the problem, only as usual in ensuring somebody else takes the blame.

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#47
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quotes are entirely appropriate because adding some domain to the PSL makes the subdomains siloed cookie-wise so they can't share cookies and the PSL cannot use cookies anymore. Since they can't share cookies you can't track across even the same domain when added to the PSL. This is a feature needed for sites like Rakuten, Shopify, Alibaba that have multiple merchants under the same domains. Nothing to do with en…

FB seems to believe they are entitled to the ability to track people on iOS. Apple is under no obligation to allow that.

Apple literally built a feature that requires addition to PSL to support a usecase that was addressed multiple times in the PrivacyCG meetings. How is this entitlement, they are following the Apple requirements.

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting because being added to the PSL reduces your ability to track users. So yeah, I have a bridge to sell you, interested?

> being added to the PSL reduces your ability to track users Not really, in fact it can increase your ability to track users if it's (ab)used in specific ways - see use case #2 and #3 here: https://github.com/privacycg/private-click-measurement/issue...

There's an approval process to be added to the PSL so abuses would be quite surprising and easy to remove when discovered.

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#49
post #33

To be honest Facebook should offer a tracking free version with paid subscription. It is not acceptable that the only way to use Facebook and contact your family is to sacrifice your own and theirs privacy. When are we going to have a regulator step in and tackle this? It doesn't seem that GDPR has helped much, so I think more radical steps are needed. Such tracking that is being done online would be illegal offline…

iPhone users are probably among Facebook's most valuable advertising demographic (ie. lots of disposable income). Apple's decisions to block tracking are hurting them in a big way, and offering a paid subscription probably won't seem attractive to users if Facebook prices it at the full value lost. We've trained people that everything is free. We can't get away from that now that the genie is out of the bottle. Furth…

This has nothing to do with tracking to target ads. Facebook doesn't need Apple to execute that, people share data with FB voluntarily.

This is about measuring the impact of advertising while following a standard published by Apple itself and covering the usecase of big marketplaces with sub stores in it.

Re: iOS 14 and Facebook Pixel causing increase in PSL inclusion requests

#50

To be honest Facebook should offer a tracking free version with paid subscription. It is not acceptable that the only way to use Facebook and contact your family is to sacrifice your own and theirs privacy. When are we going to have a regulator step in and tackle this? It doesn't seem that GDPR has helped much, so I think more radical steps are needed. Such tracking that is being done online would be illegal offline…

I don't think that such a paid subscription would be feasible. Facebook currently earns more than 150 $/year on ads for each of their US/Canada user on average; and iPhone users who would be willing to pay for such services probably are worth more than the average, so the appropriate market-determined fee to replace invasive ad targeting would be quite large.

I don't think people would be willing to pay for tracking-free Facebook more than they pay for Netflix.

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