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A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

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Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#41

Post by luckylion »

spoonjim wrote: post #39
throwaway19937 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would this guy give up real money to defend them? Dr. Gebru has a lot of support among the professor's peers in AI ethics; accepting the award would paint a target on his back. Edited for clarity.

Dr. Gebru is a she

I don't think her gender matters, it's about Luke Stark's peers that she has support among. They happen to also be her peers, but that's not the point. If she was in a different field, or not in academia at all, but supported by his peers (which wouldn't be her peers, but might be her fans, or subordinates or whatever), it would be the same result.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#42

Post by anm89 »

FooBarBizBazz wrote: post #18
notsureaboutpg wrote: post #10

From my understanding of the events, there was not really anything wrong with the way Google handled the AI Ethics researchers it fired. One threatened to quit unless a long list of demands were met. The other was exfiltrating company data. Why would this guy give up real money to defend them?

This elevates him in his field, which isn't CS.

I think this is sad but true.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#43

Post by [deleted] »

spoonjim wrote: post #39
throwaway19937 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would this guy give up real money to defend them? Dr. Gebru has a lot of support among the professor's peers in AI ethics; accepting the award would paint a target on his back. Edited for clarity.

Dr. Gebru is a she

[deleted]

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#44

Post by airhead969 »

Personally, I refuse to work for Google no matter how many $100k's or flexibility in role design and department choices they throw at me. This is because "don't be evil" was only an ostensible mission statement that has long since fell by the wayside since it obviously never was a primary value.

Of FAANG, Apple and Netflix aren't nearly as evil as the others.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#45

Post by airhead969 »

Crash0v3rid3 wrote: post #2

“Luke Stark declined a $60,000 research award from Google in support of the ousted leaders of its ethical AI group.” Ugh...I’m all for standing up for what you believe in, but I think he was foolish for turning down this money.

Integrity is worth more than money. It's not the cash but the principle. It made the news, so his moral courage clearly had an impact. You can't buy integrity but you can sell it.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#46

Post by airhead969 »

bckr wrote: post #29
Crash0v3rid3 wrote: post #2

“Luke Stark declined a $60,000 research award from Google in support of the ousted leaders of its ethical AI group.” Ugh...I’m all for standing up for what you believe in, but I think he was foolish for turning down this money.

Visiting Gebru's Twitter reveals that he is, for now, getting a lot of positive attention for his decision, which could be more valuable to him.

Yeap. It's entirely possible some angel investor-types and foundations could throw even more coin his way than he turned down. I praise him for his moral courage.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#48

Post by airhead969 »

alksjdalkj wrote: post #13

I respect the gesture but I think it would be more useful if accompanied with some plan of action for improving the current state of ethics in CS. It's a field-wide problem, not a Google specific problem. Also, let's be clear here on who bears the brunt of these actions - when a lab is short on funding, it's the grad students who lose out first. Vijay tweeted as much, saying he'd rather his grad students need to TA a…

It seems unreasonable to demand industry/field leadership and a plan for turning down a grant out of moral courage. I would advocate "be the change you seek" rather than expecting everyone else to throw their energy into solving complex, systemic problems.

Also, you can't make people more ethical with a course. It doesn't work like that. People either have a semblance of a moral compass or they don't, and unfortunately I think there is less and less big-picture moral courage and critical thinking amongst the majority of knowledge workers. Maybe it's the way people were raised in the past 30 years, e.g., latchkey kids who grew up feral without mentors or active parental involvement due to two full-time working parents.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#49

Post by tlibert »

azornathogron wrote: post #19
tlibert wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is to fund research, not personal use. Job security highly dependent on bringing in grants.

Yes, this is an important point, thank you. The research award goes to the university, not personally to the researcher (at least so says the award information at [1]). Nevertheless, I think this guy will have other opportunities and this grant isn't going to make or break him. [1] https://research.google/outreach/research-scholar-program/

Lots of luck in academia, he’s taking a risk at assistant level.

Re: A professor declined a $60K research award from Google

#50

Post by throwawayprc99 »

airhead969 wrote: post #44

Personally, I refuse to work for Google no matter how many $100k's or flexibility in role design and department choices they throw at me. This is because "don't be evil" was only an ostensible mission statement that has long since fell by the wayside since it obviously never was a primary value. Of FAANG, Apple and Netflix aren't nearly as evil as the others.

So contracting with overseas factories with work conditions so poor that they need to have suicide nets is not as evil as what Google does as a search engine?

Did you hear about the most recent debacle in India where Apple factory workers weren't getting paid their $3 USD monthly wages on time?

The fact that this trillion dollar company does this is pure evil.

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