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Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

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Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#41

Post by throwawaysea »

rayiner wrote: post #32
99_00 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does 'nationalism' concern you. Is 'nationalism' always or almost always negative?

A healthy nationalism is something countries should cultivate, in particular to unify disparate minority groups with the majority. A nationalism where a Hindu majority are stripping a Muslim minority of citizenship is probably not the good kind of nationalism.

That's not what is actually happening, and is a very common incorrect characterization by progressive/Western groups/others. India's Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) grants refugee status and paths to citizenship for refugees from some of the surrounding countries, but only if they belong to certain persecuted groups. If you're a Muslim from a Muslim-majority country, then almost always you are not a refugee escaping persecution. In fact Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Afghanistan all have Islam as their official state religion. So why would you be given the same refugee status and path to citizenship in India?

You have to also keep in mind, when you're asking for nationalism to take the form of unification, to Hindus in India that sounds like asking victims to accommodate their oppressors, given hundreds of years of invasions and brutal occupation of India by Islamic powers and then Western colonial powers. The push from Western actors like America to push for a secular India is equivalent to saying "indigenous people in America need to make way for the occupiers that perpetrated their genocide".

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#42

Post by senthil_rajasek »

as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

"what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering"

My personal thought is lack of education, lack of raising awareness.

Farming and selling produce directly at a physical market is straight forward.

Commodity trading, futures, buyer-seller agents are all complex for poor subsistence farmers with a few acres of land each.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#43

Post by sgift »

sremani wrote: post #34
lordleft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'nationalism' is typically distinguished from patriotism; the latter is a love of country -- the former is the conviction that one's country is better than other countries, on the basis of a rank tribalism.

In the mother of multicultural societies - Nationalism is the fine thread that holds the thing together. India without Indian-Nationalism is warring states inviting new colonial powers for piece of action. This has been predicament of India since Alexander the Great. Strong borders externally and shallow border internally with rivers flowing in different directions created disparate cultures and population centers. I…

Funny, there is a state in Europe which had exactly the same position: We are all individual states, we fight with each other, we are weak, we should be together under strong nationalism, so we aren't victims of others anymore and so on. That country was Germany, which unified in 1871. Two world wars later and we've decided that maybe Nationalism isn't such a great thing. But you do you. Have fun.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#44

Post by the_only_law »

sremani wrote: post #17
lotsofpulp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nationalism is always negative to me because I define it as blind allegiance to a tribe who you don't hold accountable.

First world luxury - but the 2020s will teach a lesson about primacy of Nation-State. Watch the Germans.

Yeah I think we’ve already seen enough German nationalism last century.

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#45

Post by webmobdev »

caseyross wrote: post #36
sgpl wrote: post #4

I grew up in India - nationalism is definitely a growing concern for the country IMO, more so than can be expressed online by articles such as this. And nationalism definitely has a huge overlap with hinduism in the country. Creating siloed media platforms that lets such ideas fester and grow is probably the worst thing that can happen. The thing is that even gently challenging these ideas (with some folks I know bac…

I found this tidbit from the interview interesting: > I’m an independent person; I’m apolitical. We want to unify India. I've started noticing more in the world how sometimes, people promote their stances as "apolitical", "independent", or somehow outside of politics. This has the powerful effect of implying that those stances are natural and un-opposable.

This is a mass migration of political thoughts, and its supporters, to another platform (especially of those in power currently) - you can bet they thoroughly vetted the platform owners before opting for it. To be blunt, the platform owner is one of "them".

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#46

Post by wahern »

caseyross wrote: post #36
sgpl wrote: post #4

I grew up in India - nationalism is definitely a growing concern for the country IMO, more so than can be expressed online by articles such as this. And nationalism definitely has a huge overlap with hinduism in the country. Creating siloed media platforms that lets such ideas fester and grow is probably the worst thing that can happen. The thing is that even gently challenging these ideas (with some folks I know bac…

I found this tidbit from the interview interesting: > I’m an independent person; I’m apolitical. We want to unify India. I've started noticing more in the world how sometimes, people promote their stances as "apolitical", "independent", or somehow outside of politics. This has the powerful effect of implying that those stances are natural and un-opposable.

It's a timeless, perhaps even instinctive, rhetorical formula.

If you want to advocate some policy or cause you first establish your independence to imply non-biased consideration.

If you want to criticize some policy or group you first establish that you were previously an advocate of that policy or group, or currently still are part of that group, implying that the criticism is so undeniable that even someone predisposed to bias and self-interest can't reject it.

We all do this. For example, "I actually like Rust and use it daily, BUT...."

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#47

Post by skaul »

I read the article, and it's a little concerning that a social media platform founder is getting upset by questions about platform speech regulation, which is a pretty basic product concern. I like the idea of a Twitter-like platform that caters better to Indian regional languages, but the problem with the founder saying "I'm not political so the platform is not political" is that his users are most definitely political and it won't remain "free for all" if the most vulnerable users are harassed off of it.

Also genuinely confused about the answer to the last question: "So there will be government-regulated laws that would govern the speech on Koo?" "No, you’re randomly putting words in my mouth. I’m not enjoying this conversation. I’m an independent person; I’m apolitical..." Based on everything he said before, it sounds like the answer should have been a resounding Yes? He wants to offload the speech governing to laws?

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#49

Post by [deleted] »

sgift wrote: post #43
sremani wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the mother of multicultural societies - Nationalism is the fine thread that holds the thing together. India without Indian-Nationalism is warring states inviting new colonial powers for piece of action. This has been predicament of India since Alexander the Great. Strong borders externally and shallow border internally with rivers flowing in different directions created disparate cultures and population centers. I…

Funny, there is a state in Europe which had exactly the same position: We are all individual states, we fight with each other, we are weak, we should be together under strong nationalism, so we aren't victims of others anymore and so on. That country was Germany, which unified in 1871. Two world wars later and we've decided that maybe Nationalism isn't such a great thing. But you do you. Have fun.

[deleted]

Re: Koo, India’s free-speech Twitter alternative

#50

Post by webmobdev »

as300 wrote: post #37

I get the impression reading articles like this that the farm bills would certainly negatively impact farmer. See this quote from the article: >The country’s capital city has seen over four months of protest after Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s government enacted agricultural laws that would adversely affect farmers across India. However, from speaking to people and watching interviews where people discuss *the actua…

> but what separates claims that the farm bill is bad from blatant fear-mongering?

The same thing that separates claims that the farm bill is good based on the blatant propaganda of those in power.

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