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“Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

economist.com

41–50 of 102 posts

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#41
post #13
post #2

No, it isn't. From the article: > It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women. But it is not slaughtering them. Not slaughtering them makes no difference to whether it's genocide. Genocide is about "intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group". Sterilizing them counts. As would snatching the children of that group and placing them in families of your own group (to give an exam…

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Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#42
post #35
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Judge de current situation by ethical standards of the present and judge historic ones with the eyes of those days. Eugenics was, once upon a time, seen like "good stuff" all around the globo, not anymore.

It sounds unfair. It's OK for these other countries to keep enjoying the benefits of eugenics they did in the past, but China can't join in? (same argument can be used for pollution)

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#43

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Yes. It appears so. But it's so horrific, no one wants to talk about it.

In December 2018 The Tribunal issued an interim judgement:

“The Tribunal’s members are certain – unanimously, and sure beyond reasonable doubt – that in China forced organ harvesting from prisoners of conscience has been practiced for a substantial period of time involving a very substantial number of victims.”

https://chinatribunal.com/final-judgment/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/17/china-is-harve... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30324440https://ww...

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#44
post #20
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not saying that you're wrong -- would you include the US eugenics programs [1] or the Australian forced adoptions [2] in that? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations

Yes, obviously. But what is the point of bringing that up, honestly?

whataboutism

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the wiki article itself: > The compulsory sterilization of American men and women continues to this day. In 2013, it was reported that 148 female prisoners in two California prisons were sterilized between 2006 and 2010 in a supposedly voluntary program, but it was determined that the prisoners did not give consent to the procedures. > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-stern/sterilization-calif... It was banned…

Also last summer in the immigration detention center(s?). https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/9/15/21437805/w... I guess there can be some room for discussion about whether it is genocide if there is not a clear target group/culture. Doesn't make it less heinous, just a different sort of heinous.

It was one center by one doctor who is being investigated. This was not the machinations of federal or state.

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#46
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Same for the residential schools in Canada my grandmother attended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc...

Thank you for bringing this up. It's outrageous that it isn't more known outside of Canada (and inside). The last one only closed in 1996. EDIT: and good on you for honouring her.

I think something similar existed in Alaska. I had relatives up in south east Alaska ( the chain of islands that hang down, with cities like Juneau, Ketchican. While visiting we were shepherded around in a little school van by a retired teacher who worked at the local boarding school which was managed by Indian affairs. It was quite interesting talking to him - essentially kids who lived a traditional remote lifestyle in fishing and other villages all over the various islands would come to the school for months at a time for an education.

I'm sure I didn't hear that 'other' side of the story, but it's pretty clear what was happening - taking kids away from their traditional families and putting them into American style education is a softer form of cultural destruction. I also spoke with his former students who had moved to the big city (think 3,000 people), and the city itself is mostly a mix of native, old russian and americans.

In some ways their lifestyle was the same, their income was still fishing but they were living in a mostly normal American town - aside from the fact it was in the middle of no where and there were more boats and than cars in the city.

I'd like to go back up there, everything I have learned about tlinget and the people I spent time with was a really interesting and awesome opportunity.

Similar things happened to the scotts when scottish gaelic stopped being taught in school and was transferred to English. Now of course almost everyone in Scotland besides the Outer Hebrides speaks English.

In many ways the Tlinget I met in SE Alaska were aware of what was going on and there was a lot of cultural preservation and focus on their language and traditional lifestyle, but again what else would you expect when you talk to people who work at the local cultural center? It's hard to say what the 'average' Tlinget experience is and since it's pretty sparse up there, experiences vary wildly.

Anyway - Go to Sitka, AK, it's beautiful!

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#47
post #2

No, it isn't. From the article: > It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women. But it is not slaughtering them. Not slaughtering them makes no difference to whether it's genocide. Genocide is about "intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group". Sterilizing them counts. As would snatching the children of that group and placing them in families of your own group (to give an exam…

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Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#48
The Economist is owned by the same clan who owns Fiat — Agnelli family.

Fiat and its owner family made tons of money on making military machinery for Axis Powers.

Fiat is a 50% shareholder of GAC FCA, a Chinese auto makers with factories in Xinjiang out of all places.

Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang

#49

By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocational training centres”. It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women. But it is not slaughtering them. - Yes, Guardi…

Dude, take a deep breath and chill. Your "Red Rage" led you to confuse the Economist - always a stalwart champion of British Liberal Capitalism - with The Guardian, a somewhat leftish newspaper from the UK.
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