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What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

savingjournalism.substack.com

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Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#41
If you are student of grammar and journalism, do your self a favor and follow @nyttypos. I was stunned by the large number of mistakes that professional journalists make, that their editors miss, and that they refuse to correct.

Here is an article about @nyttypos and his/her obsession...

https://www.theringer.com/2020/8/18/21372181/nytimes-typo-tw...

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#42

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

> I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer. Yup. These days I only get my news from The Daily Wire and Joe Rogan. I'm educated, and I just can't trust the lamestream media.

Is this comment missing a /s? The Daily Wire is actual fake news, with a long track record of misinformation and poor quality content[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]... While not perfect, NYT has a long track record of quality journalism that goes back hundreds of years, winning 130 Pulitzer Prizes.

[1] https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/

[2] https://popular.info/p/facebook-allows-prominent-right-wing

[3] https://www.thedailybeast.com/shadowy-right-wing-network-beh...

[4] https://www.factcheck.org/2017/04/carson-didnt-find-hud-erro...

[5] https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/scientists-we-know-wh...

[6] https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/global-quackery-earth...

[7] https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/daily-wire-article-mi...

[8] https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-mohammed-popular-name-n...

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#43

Seems like it would be easy to have a change log at the bottom of every article that tracks edits. There’s probably three free widgets like this on GitHub that would work just fine.

I've seen articles on NPR and Reuters that have brief summaries of edits at the bottom. Stuff like "Edited to correct affiliation of Dr X. The article originally and incorrectly said she worked at Y University." They'll also put an "edited at" time at the top.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#44

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

yeah it's a questionable claim for sure. This was a widely cited poll that asserted for the first time ever, the majority of Americans mistrust the mainstream media: https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-...

You'll note that trust varies widely by political party, with 18% of Republicans trusting the media vs 57% of Democrats. So the post in the op seems to equate "educated" with "democrat" perhaps. Even if that's valid (don't really have the facts to dispute it personally) 57% is nothing to brag about.

Another interesting poll on this subject here: https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/04/01/americans-m..., which asked people what their political affiliation was and what their main source of news was. Of those that said Fox, 93% leaned Republican...no surprise there. But what's striking is that of those that said MSNBC, 95% leaned Democrat. The NYT, 91%. NPR, 87%! Kind of makes me wonder what the trust numbers would be if the media outlets weren't increasingly becoming echo chambers.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#45
What happens when the NYT makes mistakes is they don’t admit fault, defend their work like zealots, market it broadly to the point that schools adopt it, and then they quietly edit their work so that it is less visibly flawed but still fundamentally flawed. Behold the saga of the 1619 Project: https://quillette.com/2020/09/19/down-the-1619-projects-memo...

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly I just had an unrelated discussion on goodreads about that. The first mentioned author of the NYT article is supposedly a cybersecurity expert. The article lacked any evidence and called the company russian and obscure, they edited that but it’s still on archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20210106195835/https://www.nytim... I left a goodreads comment on the NYT authors latest cybersecurity book cal…

This makes me wonder, 3 branches of government exist to balance each other out. Journalism stands on its own, what’s the counter balance to journalism?

"Journalism" - quotes intended.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article further explains: "HCQ is a cheap generic drug that was widely being given away for free Pharma firms don’t benefit much from picking one generic over another Sanofi was never going to make meaningful money on Plaquenil The disclosures in question were already over a year out of date The disclosures actually show net sales of the Sanofi-related fund (More sourcing for all that here.) It wasn’t just Twitte…

What is misleading about saying Trump “small personal financial interest”? That seems pretty clear cut and truthful.

Imagine that Alice's net worth is an even billion dollars. Alice buys a tiny stake, $1000 or so, in ACME Industries. This is financially immaterial to Alice. It's 0.0001% of her net worth. But the purchase gives her access to all of the information which must be legally shared with investors, and is a common way investors keep tabs on publicly-traded companies.

Now, imagine that Bob's net worth is $10,000. Alice's investment is equivalent to Bob investing a single penny in ACME Industries.

The headline "Alice and Bob establish a small financial interest in ACME Industries" might be technically true in the most stringent sense, but it doesn't really align with how the phrase "financial interest" is used in common speech.

It's not even relevant information about either Alice or Bob.

This is one of those things that barely skates along the line of honesty. It's like a company that says "We Don't Sell Your Data!" in large type with a tiny asterisk on the end. When you read the fine print attached to said asterisk, there are all kinds of exceptions for "trusted partners" and "quality assurance". To all intents and purposes, that company does, in fact, sell your data.

This just isn't how you establish or maintain trust.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly I just had an unrelated discussion on goodreads about that. The first mentioned author of the NYT article is supposedly a cybersecurity expert. The article lacked any evidence and called the company russian and obscure, they edited that but it’s still on archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20210106195835/https://www.nytim... I left a goodreads comment on the NYT authors latest cybersecurity book cal…

This makes me wonder, 3 branches of government exist to balance each other out. Journalism stands on its own, what’s the counter balance to journalism?

It’s other newspapers and online entities such as this. In this case I am sure the company suffered financially, they should be able to pressure the NYT to retract the story, they have some muscle with the google ties.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#49
post #7

What happens when substacks make mistakes?

Doesn't matter because most of substack isn't really journalism - it's punditry and navel-gazing. It's basically disrupting the op-ed page.

And op-eds, even in NYT, have been full of factual errors across the entire political spectrum of personalities who write for it.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#50
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer. Yup. These days I only get my news from The Daily Wire and Joe Rogan. I'm educated, and I just can't trust the lamestream media.

Is this comment missing a /s? The Daily Wire is actual fake news, with a long track record of misinformation and poor quality content[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8]... While not perfect, NYT has a long track record of quality journalism that goes back hundreds of years, winning 130 Pulitzer Prizes. [1] https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-daily-wire/ [2] https://popular.info/p/facebook-allows-prominent-right-wing [3] https://…

Yes, I believe that to be sarcasm.
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