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The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

newyorker.com

41–50 of 126 posts

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#41
post #10

Someone really needs to give the New Yorker some serious credit for publishing what can genuinely be described as a thoughtful, well written, and objective article on social media and big tech. Bravo. I'm honestly convinced that at some point this kind of big tech social media witch burning will eventually lead to private lawsuits aimed at non-combatants like Signal and Wickr. Please leave a comment if you disagree -…

One can simultaneously roll their eyes about slippery slopes, argue that this is simply banning obvious illegal activities, etc.--and be at least a little bit discomfited that a bunch of private companies can basically disappear someone from public discourse if they want to. Mind you. Historically most people didn't have access to a platform anyway. And the record from at least some players like AWS is that their ban…

Private companies have been disappearing small business owners for two decades. PayPal locks your account. YouTube decides to kill your channel for copyright strikes to content you created. Amazon does - all the shady things Amazon is famous for. Apple kills your app because reasons.

And so on.

This is not about disappearing people. Or businesses. This is about disappearing politicians.

The real game here is that the mainstream media - especially on the far right - have suddenly discovered they're no longer owners of the narrative space, and their game tokens can be removed without notice.

Of course they're unhappy about this.

So if we're going to talk about concentrated media influence, we should be questioning the international reach and centralised narrative control of the Fox network (and others) at least as much Twitter or Amazon's ability to ban someone who was literally planning an insurrection in the US.

There is no free speech issue here, because the kind of "free" political speech we're talking about is very, very expensive, and only available to a tiny selection of headline operators.

Everything else in the social media space is noise farmed for engagement, and is unlikely to unduly trouble anyone who matters.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#42
post #33
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though the article doesn’t mention the coordinated and active censoring of the NY Post story, even in private conversations, which was already a heavy stroke of interference in the elections. It’s a lot of precedents. And there is nothing that suggests the temperature will cool down in the short term. I agree that big tech companies may do a lot more collateral damage but in my opinion they also already painted thems…

> Though the article doesn’t mention the coordinated and active censoring of the NY Post story, even in private conversations, which was already a heavy stroke of interference in the elections. You packed a lot into this one sentence. Please share your evidence.

Straight from the source itself: https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/facebook-twitter-block-the-pos...

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#43
post #14

Are there any companies or organizations working to protect Internet freedom?

The Electronic Frontier Foundation kind of works towards that, same as ACLU in some measure. There was also Chilling Effects (I think renamed to Lumen or lumendatabase.org ).

As an international spectator of USA politics, it was worrying how easily corporations took a side and disappeared a couple of applications and banned a group of people.

Imagine if this happened say during Chile's removal of Pinochet or other South American's revolutions where the people tried to overthrow dictatorships. Now think that USA government interests or the interests of any large nation (China, or even Russia) could flex their arms to entice Amazon, Twitter, Facebook and other large companies to block any type of dissident interactions.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best sources of news seem to be the ones I pay for: New Yorker, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post

Do these newspapers provide thought provoking articles, or just fuel confirmation bias for their readers? I was a subscriber of NYT for a few years, and the one time there was a dissenting opinion - that of Tom Cotton - it led to editors being fired. WSJ seems better, maybe because business reporting tends to be somewhat less opinionated.

Was the editor fired because of a "dissenting opinion" or because Cotton was effectively calling for martial law against protestors?

The NYTimes op-ed section has plenty of dissenting opinions and/or conservatives... just not ones calling for violence.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#45
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, people didn’t use to have a lot of things, it’s still a big problem if you ban certain people from a platform but not others. Those that are allowed gain a huge advantage. It’s especially problematic if these de facto monopolies take sides in elections.

How is it any different than if I was banned from HN or an IRC channel? These "platforms" are just large message boards.

Both AWS and payment processors are substantially different from message boards.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#46
None of the questions are hard. Not even building your own platform is hard. The only thing that is hard for the author, and the majority of their readers, is admitting to themselves that they are unwilling or unable to execute and provide for themselves.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#47
post #24

After WWII when the Soviets took control of nations like Poland, they didn't flat out ban free speech. But they did make sure only the communist-aligned outlets had unlimited access to paper. Like so many censorship-happy people today, the USSR could also say that the government wasn't censoring speech. They were only controlling paper.

What did the government do here?

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best sources of news seem to be the ones I pay for: New Yorker, New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post

Do these newspapers provide thought provoking articles, or just fuel confirmation bias for their readers? I was a subscriber of NYT for a few years, and the one time there was a dissenting opinion - that of Tom Cotton - it led to editors being fired. WSJ seems better, maybe because business reporting tends to be somewhat less opinionated.

> thought provoking articles, or just fuel confirmation bias for their readers?

I'd argue that NYT has fallen into the latter, with dissenting voices stifled internally, example Bari Weiss:

https://www.poynter.org/newsletters/2020/breaking-down-the-c...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2020/07/14/bari-weiss-r...

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#49

Someone really needs to give the New Yorker some serious credit for publishing what can genuinely be described as a thoughtful, well written, and objective article on social media and big tech. Bravo. I'm honestly convinced that at some point this kind of big tech social media witch burning will eventually lead to private lawsuits aimed at non-combatants like Signal and Wickr. Please leave a comment if you disagree -…

Eventually the browser itself might be held accountable. How dare chrome display child's pornography or allowing users to send http requests filled with hate. Chrome should be able to filter that stuff out

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#50
post #10

Someone really needs to give the New Yorker some serious credit for publishing what can genuinely be described as a thoughtful, well written, and objective article on social media and big tech. Bravo. I'm honestly convinced that at some point this kind of big tech social media witch burning will eventually lead to private lawsuits aimed at non-combatants like Signal and Wickr. Please leave a comment if you disagree -…

One can simultaneously roll their eyes about slippery slopes, argue that this is simply banning obvious illegal activities, etc.--and be at least a little bit discomfited that a bunch of private companies can basically disappear someone from public discourse if they want to. Mind you. Historically most people didn't have access to a platform anyway. And the record from at least some players like AWS is that their ban…

Most people didn't use to have a platform like Twitter where you could instantaneously reach the whole world, no. But the argument was always "If you don't like it just build your own thing". So, sure, maybe the NYTimes didn't have to publish you, but you could go buy a mimeograph or a printing press and put out your own newsletter, even if you had to stand on the street corner and hand it out yourself.

But now the companies that make printing presses won't sell to you. The machine shops that make the parts to build printing presses also won't work with you. Maybe you're supposed to mine your own ore and refine your own metal to build your own printing press?

In the long run, we're going to have to find a better way to deal with odious speech that by simply cutting people off and shutting them completely out of the public sphere. For one thing, this requires us to trust that the gatekeepers who control access are always going to be fair and just and only shut out genuinely bad actors. There's needs to be a process where anyone who wants to can still see and inspect the banned speech to audit whether it was really worth banning or not.

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