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The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

newyorker.com

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Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#21

Post by paganel »

xpe wrote: post #9

> We may see the emergence of new business structures for communications and media platforms, or an increase in collective actions taken by tech workers. In all likelihood, this past weekend was a turning point not only for Trump and Trumpism, but for the American technology industry. I'd like to hear about some testable predictions from the HN community. What do you think will happen and with what odds? And, to put…

> or an increase in collective actions taken by tech workers.

I don't see this happening anytime soon, worker-related collective action has been pretty much dead in the West for at least the past 15-20 years, even much so in an industry like ours with deep ideological roots in libertarianism. Even if we were to pass over the ingrained ideological biases, the money is too good for us to risk it.

> the emergence of new business structures for communications and media platforms,

Not sure what the author means by that. Will there be a new Trump-loving Twitter or FB? Probably not, at least not at that scale, and it will be all for the best, because we need to see behemoths like Twitter and FB perish (in Schumpeter's "creative destruction"-sense, before anyone starts flagging this post for inciting violence) and it's time we went back to the forum-like internet communities popular until the late 2000s (of which this website is one of the last active survivors).

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#22

Post by ABeeSea »

paganel wrote: post #11
cm2187 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though the article doesn’t mention the coordinated and active censoring of the NY Post story, even in private conversations, which was already a heavy stroke of interference in the elections. It’s a lot of precedents. And there is nothing that suggests the temperature will cool down in the short term. I agree that big tech companies may do a lot more collateral damage but in my opinion they also already painted thems…

> Republicans will get back to power sooner or later and I think we should expect a regulatory backlash. It depends which type of Republicans, right now it looks like the party is de facto split in two. Even though today's vote showed that they still think the Trump side will win out in the medium to long term, otherwise I can't explain why they chose to face the media storm directly and voted against impeachment.

Rep Swalwell (member of intelligence and judiciary committees) said on msnbc today that several republicans lawmakers told him they would vote no because they feared for their and their family’s safety. The Republican Party is afraid that Trump’s base will murder republicans who turn against Trump.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#23

Post by potta_coffee »

ghaff wrote: post #10
koolk3ychain wrote: post #2

Someone really needs to give the New Yorker some serious credit for publishing what can genuinely be described as a thoughtful, well written, and objective article on social media and big tech. Bravo. I'm honestly convinced that at some point this kind of big tech social media witch burning will eventually lead to private lawsuits aimed at non-combatants like Signal and Wickr. Please leave a comment if you disagree -…

One can simultaneously roll their eyes about slippery slopes, argue that this is simply banning obvious illegal activities, etc.--and be at least a little bit discomfited that a bunch of private companies can basically disappear someone from public discourse if they want to. Mind you. Historically most people didn't have access to a platform anyway. And the record from at least some players like AWS is that their ban…

Platforms are like nuclear weapons. Nobody had them before, now the countries that have them are more powerful than everybody else. I think the analogy admittedly falls apart if you carry it too far.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#24

Post by _qcti »

After WWII when the Soviets took control of nations like Poland, they didn't flat out ban free speech.

But they did make sure only the communist-aligned outlets had unlimited access to paper.

Like so many censorship-happy people today, the USSR could also say that the government wasn't censoring speech. They were only controlling paper.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#25

Post by Grustaf »

chaostheory wrote: post #4

Who would have predicted 20 years ago that we should be more wary of Little Sister (big tech) instead of Big Brother? I like to call them Little Sister because of how they name their seemingly innocuous digital assistants.

Huxley, for one.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#26

Post by kweinber »

chaostheory wrote: post #4

Who would have predicted 20 years ago that we should be more wary of Little Sister (big tech) instead of Big Brother? I like to call them Little Sister because of how they name their seemingly innocuous digital assistants.

Is anyone seriously more worried about the independent players of big tech than an oligarch who has roused the firepower and hatred of domestic terrorists across the country?

The rhetoric is really overblown.... these companies waited years and until the heads of state were fully under attack before they did much of anything.

This isn’t even about free speech. People can still say what they want.... they just don’t have an absolute right to broadcast it on every major platform.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#27

Post by typenil »

loceng wrote: post #18
beefee wrote: post #14

Are there any companies or organizations working to protect Internet freedom?

That want to allow inciting of violence on platforms? Serious question. Edit to add: anyone going to answer or just downvote and ignore the question?

Let's sweep all the dirt under the rug and then act surprised when we find it's so much grosser than the rest of the floor.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#28

Post by ahurmazda »

koolk3ychain wrote: post #2

Someone really needs to give the New Yorker some serious credit for publishing what can genuinely be described as a thoughtful, well written, and objective article on social media and big tech. Bravo. I'm honestly convinced that at some point this kind of big tech social media witch burning will eventually lead to private lawsuits aimed at non-combatants like Signal and Wickr. Please leave a comment if you disagree -…

Couldn’t one argue that we have had a (gnarly) A/B test in the past few years— Twitter, FB mostly let different groups use the platform as the latter see fit. End result is (mind you not theoretical): erosion of civil discourse, platforms being used to organize illegal activities, proliferation of misinformation (during a pandemic) etc. We are kinda beyond what we could happen if company X did not allow Y to begin with. It has already happened.

I am more worried about where are we heading as a society? Why the heck is a regular joe (me) lying awake at night about armed unrest in the most powerful country in the world. Just beyond depressing.

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#29

Post by [deleted] »

paganel wrote: post #21
xpe wrote: post #9

> We may see the emergence of new business structures for communications and media platforms, or an increase in collective actions taken by tech workers. In all likelihood, this past weekend was a turning point not only for Trump and Trumpism, but for the American technology industry. I'd like to hear about some testable predictions from the HN community. What do you think will happen and with what odds? And, to put…

> or an increase in collective actions taken by tech workers. I don't see this happening anytime soon, worker-related collective action has been pretty much dead in the West for at least the past 15-20 years, even much so in an industry like ours with deep ideological roots in libertarianism. Even if we were to pass over the ingrained ideological biases, the money is too good for us to risk it. > the emergence of new…

[deleted]

Re: The platforms have acted, raising hard questions about technology and democracy

#30

Post by jfim »

cm2187 wrote: post #15
paganel wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Republicans will get back to power sooner or later and I think we should expect a regulatory backlash. It depends which type of Republicans, right now it looks like the party is de facto split in two. Even though today's vote showed that they still think the Trump side will win out in the medium to long term, otherwise I can't explain why they chose to face the media storm directly and voted against impeachment.

I think Trump has become radioactive, even within the republican party. They may not want to impeach (and I am not sure what is the point of impeaching a president after he left office) but I doubt a come back is on anyone’s mind at this stage. But Trump’s electorate will remain however.

> I am not sure what is the point of impeaching a president after he left office

Impeachment may prevent him from running again: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-exp...

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