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Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

cases.justia.com

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Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#41

Post by glangdale »

It's a bit like the old (apocryphal, all the famous people who supposedly said this almost certainly didn't) joke:

"GROUCHO (to woman seated next to him at an elegant dinner party): Would you sleep with me for ten million dollars?

WOMAN (giggles and responds): Oh, Groucho, of course I would.

GROUCHO; How about doing it for fifteen dollars?

WOMAN (indignant): Why, what do you think I am?

GROUCHO: That’s already been established. Now we’re just haggling about the price."

The CEO of Hooked has presumably learned a valuable lesson about treating engineers like cattle. I've never heard of this kind of "partial acquihire" and it seems outlandish that she expected things to go her way in court.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#42

Post by lopmotr »

raziel2701 wrote: post #35
newbie578 wrote: post #25

I have to admit, while I cannot stand Apple and I am constantly opposed to them and I consider them personally a net negative in today's world, in this particular situation it seems they are not the "rotten" party, or would it be better to say that they are the "lesser evil". Reading through the document I am honestly shocked at the behaviour of the CEO, I mean come on how entitled do you have to be to try and think…

Yeah it expands the whole concept of wage slavery.

No it doesn't at all. Those employees were always free to apply to Apple independently. This finder's fee sounds like the commission a recruitment agency would charge for literally finding workers. That's a perfectly reasonable way to charge for that service.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#43

Post by rdlecler1 »

emteycz wrote: post #3
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

I don't understand why there is no Silicon Valley in Europe then

To pile on, Europe also makes it difficult to raise venture capital funds—particularly smaller micro funds as the startup cost is so high. Europe is going to regulate their way back to the dark ages.

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#45

Post by cblconfederate »

yarg wrote: post #34
batmaniam wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should rid of the term 'poaching'. There's no such thing. We're not animals, we are free to accept a better offer it comes along. The CEO should have counter offered with something more substantial, but he couldn't so the engineers went to greener pastures.

We are animals. Why the fuck people insist on claiming otherwise is beyond me.

because they are animals

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#46

Post by cameldrv »

emteycz wrote: post #3
Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

I don't understand why there is no Silicon Valley in Europe then

Also that Europe lacks large pension funds that are legally allowed to invest in Venture Capital, or a large class of super-rich that will invest in Venture Capital, or a large class of moderately wealthy startup veterans that like to do angel investing (the last one is changing).

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#47

Post by [deleted] »

batmaniam wrote: post #18
tallgiraffe wrote: post #4

Sounds like a few engineers found out that Apple was looking into their company and knowing Apple was interested they took a new gig, meanwhile the CEO got upset and decided to fire the last remaining defecting engineer, who out of goodness of heart actually declined Apple, but gratefully took the offer once he got fired. Although it probably hurts to have your team poached, it sounds like potentially it wasn't a gre…

We should rid of the term 'poaching'. There's no such thing. We're not animals, we are free to accept a better offer it comes along. The CEO should have counter offered with something more substantial, but he couldn't so the engineers went to greener pastures.

[deleted]

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#48

Post by notahacker »

hbosch wrote: post #9

Two things, really: if you turn down an acquisition that you feel your employees supported, you don’t get to do the “surprised pikachu face” when you turn it down and they go work there anyway. Secondly, it’s presented as if these engineers exfiltrated special knowledge with them... isn’t it fair to also give them the benefit of the doubt in that the same employees may have crucially developed the software themselves…

> From any angle, they created an environment that made these guys think “my time will be better spent at Apple”.

tbf I don't think many startups running out of cash and exit opportunities would expect to keep their engineers if Apple approached them to offer a pay rise, regardless of how wonderful the environment was.

But the idea to raise capital by 'selling' engineers to Apple instead of agreeing to the aquihire (and perhaps negotiating for the IP Apple didn't want to be spun out) looks naive. Surely this is one where the investors and advisors ought to have stepped in?

The CEO apparently firing a CTO for interviewing for a job isn't a great look for management either...

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#49

Post by netcan »

This whole thing feels ick to read.

"Hooked would “sell” three engineers to Apple (including a longtime employee who served as Chief Technical Officer) and continue operating the less technical aspect of its business, relating to advertising."

Re: Strapped startup declines acquihire, Apple poaches key engineers; NP, says court [pdf]

#50

Post by donor20 »

Animats wrote: post #2

"That evidence does suggest the engineers drew on knowledge and skills they gained from Hooked to develop a product for their new employer––but California’s policy favoring free mobility for employees specifically allows that. (See Whyte v. Schlage Lock Co. (2002) 101Cal.App.4th 1443, 1464 [rejecting the “inevitable disclosure” doctrine, under which a claim for trade secret misappropriation is stated if an employee’s…

Labor mobility is really low in Europe. In france you can be tied up in litigation (tribunel through appeals) for 10 years easily on an employment termination (my info is from 2016 time frame so may be dated). There is no such thing as at-will employment.

Also, noncompete's are weird. If someone is receiving full pay on gardening leave they can work for someone else. If you instead have them work till end of notice period you can usually pay some % of salary (ie, 50%) to totally block their ability to work for any competitor.

So you can't fire the horrible workers (without insane headaches) and you CAN block good workers from moving too quickly to competitors (ie, take a year or two out of their working life for a price - which is usually tied to cash salary and is low). All to say - not the fluid labor environment that startups would generally be at home in.

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