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Chanakya

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Re: Chanakya

#41

Post by dr_dshiv »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #38
01100011 wrote: post #26

It's nice to see some Asian history for a change. In the west, it seems as we only have an interest in the historical narratives of Egypt, Greece, Rome, and Europe. Dense civilizations existed in South and East Asian stretching back thousands of years and our history classes and popular culture barely touch on them. I'd love to see more pop culture(games, movies, etc) explore the history of what is now India, Thailan…

I'm always amazed whenever I mention the Indus Valley Civilization and most people have never even heard of it - they think "ancient civilization" means the Egyptians and Mesopotamians!

Here's a nice recent article with maps showing the cities of the Indus Valley Civilization.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/climate-change-behind-rise-an...

Re: Chanakya

#42

Post by adictator »

humility wrote: post #14
actuator wrote: post #12

Other than his works, he was the prime minister in Maurya empire, credited with its rise. Maurya empire is considered to be one of the greatest Indian empires along with Guptas(known for progress in science, medicine) and Cholas(mercantile empire crossing oceans). It spread west upto present day Afghanistan at its peak. Maurya king Ashoka is quite famous because of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka#Kalinga_w…

Interestingly enough he became politically active after India's defeat at the hands of Alexander the Great, and aided in creating an empire that unified the whole of India, which was unprecedented until then.

> India's defeat at the hands of Alexander the Great

It was not India, but one kingdom that Alexander's army fought against. Also, there is no indication other than ONE Greek source that says Alexander won. In fact there is more evidence to the contrary - that Alexander lost very badly in his first encounter in India and that caused his expedition to end prematurely.

Re: Chanakya

#43

Post by natcombs »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #35

Many thousands of undiscovered manuscripts, invaluable to India's literary legacy, are rotting away as we speak. There is very little financial support for archeology or manuscriptology in India. So much has been lost already. And, of the estimated known 40 million manuscripts, no one is being trained to read and translate them! Opportunity for philanthropy? https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-sanskr…

> It's a great opportunity for philanthropy

With 189 million people undernourished or starving in India, why not donate to help with that first?

https://www.indiafoodbanking.org/hunger

Re: Chanakya

#44

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #35

Many thousands of undiscovered manuscripts, invaluable to India's literary legacy, are rotting away as we speak. There is very little financial support for archeology or manuscriptology in India. So much has been lost already. And, of the estimated known 40 million manuscripts, no one is being trained to read and translate them! Opportunity for philanthropy? https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-sanskr…

In recent decades, Hindutva forces have gained more and more political influence in India, and their rhetoric continually emphasizes that India is home to ancient Vedic wisdom unparalled in the world, and that Sanskrit is some kind of super-language handed down by the gods millions of years ago (instead of a codified form for sacramental use of an ordinary language spoken just a few thousand years ago). And yet, while many Indians are swelling with patriotic pride at their country’s inheritance, actual classical philology is dying and largely done by interested foreigners. Not only are the manuscripts not being adequately studied within India, but deep practical knowledge of Sanskrit is dying out, too. Yes, of course you’ll hear urban myths about whole villages speaking Sanskrit or whatever, but this is always huge exaggeration that gets perpetuated for decades.

Re: Chanakya

#45

Post by dr_dshiv »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #44
dr_dshiv wrote: post #35

Many thousands of undiscovered manuscripts, invaluable to India's literary legacy, are rotting away as we speak. There is very little financial support for archeology or manuscriptology in India. So much has been lost already. And, of the estimated known 40 million manuscripts, no one is being trained to read and translate them! Opportunity for philanthropy? https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-sanskr…

In recent decades, Hindutva forces have gained more and more political influence in India, and their rhetoric continually emphasizes that India is home to ancient Vedic wisdom unparalled in the world, and that Sanskrit is some kind of super-language handed down by the gods millions of years ago (instead of a codified form for sacramental use of an ordinary language spoken just a few thousand years ago). And yet, whil…

> actual classical philology is dying. Not only are the manuscripts not being adequately studied, but deep practical knowledge of Sanskrit is dying out, too.

I've also heard that there is anger when non-Indian scholars study Sanskrit. Cambridge shut down their Sanskrit program, after 150 years. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/04/12/scholars-who-...

Re: Chanakya

#46

Post by actuator »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #35

Many thousands of undiscovered manuscripts, invaluable to India's literary legacy, are rotting away as we speak. There is very little financial support for archeology or manuscriptology in India. So much has been lost already. And, of the estimated known 40 million manuscripts, no one is being trained to read and translate them! Opportunity for philanthropy? https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-sanskr…

While there seem to be ancient unis with rich literature[1], my understanding was most of the manuscripts were destroyed by invading forces, does the 40 million figure count those as well?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_higher-learning_instit...

Re: Chanakya

#47

Post by actuator »

crispyporkbites wrote: post #36
actuator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we judge any ancient work by our current morals, we would most likely be left wanting. This book was written almost 2500 years back.

I half agree with this. IMO we should absolutely throw out content that doesn’t fit within modern morals, given our modern morals are objectively more correct and humanist than anything prior (if that is not the case we should challenge our morals not the prior text). However we can still learn from and stand to lose a great deal by destroying content with morally questionable angles. So what we really want is an int…

Yeah, I agree with this. The comment which I replied to which has been flagged now stated something like, "this is so misogynistic". Hence, my comment that prevailing morals were largely different then. One can choose to leave the misogynistic things yet still appreciate his work on politics and economics.

Re: Chanakya

#48

Post by dr_dshiv »

natcombs wrote: post #43
dr_dshiv wrote: post #35

Many thousands of undiscovered manuscripts, invaluable to India's literary legacy, are rotting away as we speak. There is very little financial support for archeology or manuscriptology in India. So much has been lost already. And, of the estimated known 40 million manuscripts, no one is being trained to read and translate them! Opportunity for philanthropy? https://www.dailyo.in/arts/ancient-manuscripts-india-sanskr…

> It's a great opportunity for philanthropy With 189 million people undernourished or starving in India, why not donate to help with that first? https://www.indiafoodbanking.org/hunger

Because we should do both. If we only wait to preserve culture until all people are fed, then we will have lost those manuscripts forever.

Re: Chanakya

#49

Post by natcombs »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #48
natcombs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a great opportunity for philanthropy With 189 million people undernourished or starving in India, why not donate to help with that first? https://www.indiafoodbanking.org/hunger

Because we should do both. If we only wait to preserve culture until all people are fed, then we will have lost those manuscripts forever.

Which is the priority?

> we will have lost those manuscripts forever.

You do realize that starvation results in millions of lives lost forever. That’s why I donate to food & local water/well charities Today. Manuscripts can be photographed and transcribed later.

Re: Chanakya

#50

Post by rramadass »

For people interested in actually studying Chanakya's writings (their sweep is magisterial), the following are recommended;

* The First Great Political Realist: Kautilya and His Arthashastra by Roger Boesche - A very good (and short) overview of the Arthashastra.

* King, Governance, and Law in Ancient India: Kautilya's Arthashastra translated by Patrick Olivelle - A good modern translation of the complete Arthashastra.

* Kautilya's Arthashastra: An Intellectual Portrait: The Classical Roots of Modern Politics in India by Subrata K. Mitra and Michael Liebic - A scholarly and challenging work on the relevance and applications of the Arthashastra.

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