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China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

sciencemag.org

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Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#41

Post by gamblor956 »

bserge wrote: post #4
rvba wrote: post #2

Can those numbers be trusted? https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/21/nobody-knows-anything-a...

At the very least we know Chinese companies (and by extension, the government) do indeed spend a lot on research, development and production. The sheer amount of tech made and shipped from China is astonishing. And the quality has massively improved, while prices stay low. Everything from amazing BGA reballing stations to high quality solar panels and power tools.

A lot of that IP was stolen from US and EU companies.

Cost isn't the only reason that manufacturing is moving out of China; companies are finally realizing that using Chinese factories is tantamount to giving the PRC access to all of your technical IP.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#42

Post by squidlogic »

mistermann wrote: post #36
_6fmb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

I wonder how it would look if there was some magical way to view it on an ROI basis. Rather than focusing on R&D (science & technology presumably), I'd like to see Western countries start approaching ~"the humanities" (culture, society, happiness, etc) the same way we treat technology and industry. To me it seems fairly clear that there are distinct differences at the human satisfaction level between different countr…

Unfortunately the humanities succumbed to postmodernism long ago. Since then it has been impossible to impose strict tests on veracity as you find in hard sciences.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#43

Post by maedla »

squidlogic wrote: post #42
mistermann wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how it would look if there was some magical way to view it on an ROI basis. Rather than focusing on R&D (science & technology presumably), I'd like to see Western countries start approaching ~"the humanities" (culture, society, happiness, etc) the same way we treat technology and industry. To me it seems fairly clear that there are distinct differences at the human satisfaction level between different countr…

Unfortunately the humanities succumbed to postmodernism long ago. Since then it has been impossible to impose strict tests on veracity as you find in hard sciences.

What do you mean?

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#44

Post by Barrin92 »

cma wrote: post #34
_6fmb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

But their purchasing power parity is way higher so presumably they get more for less, other than stuff they have to import to support research.

correct, it's also why the Chinese and Russian military are quite large and potent despite the fact that obviously they spend several times less in absolute terms than the US. In particular salary costs, which tend to be large factors in research or the military, are way lower in China or Russia.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#45

Post by 0_____0 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #41
bserge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least we know Chinese companies (and by extension, the government) do indeed spend a lot on research, development and production. The sheer amount of tech made and shipped from China is astonishing. And the quality has massively improved, while prices stay low. Everything from amazing BGA reballing stations to high quality solar panels and power tools.

A lot of that IP was stolen from US and EU companies. Cost isn't the only reason that manufacturing is moving out of China; companies are finally realizing that using Chinese factories is tantamount to giving the PRC access to all of your technical IP.

was the same not true with Japan? at some point China may move past Western nations in practical sophistication, and start making better stuff.

example: you want a photography drone? Like, the best commerical one available? It's a Chinese product. Most of the other stuff on the market doesn't come close. The closest we had domestically in the US was 3D systems, and then went under if I recall correctly.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#46

Post by moreorless »

gamblor956 wrote: post #41
bserge wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least we know Chinese companies (and by extension, the government) do indeed spend a lot on research, development and production. The sheer amount of tech made and shipped from China is astonishing. And the quality has massively improved, while prices stay low. Everything from amazing BGA reballing stations to high quality solar panels and power tools.

A lot of that IP was stolen from US and EU companies. Cost isn't the only reason that manufacturing is moving out of China; companies are finally realizing that using Chinese factories is tantamount to giving the PRC access to all of your technical IP.

> A lot of that ip was stolen from US and EU companies

You can even go as far as ALL of that IP was stolen. Not only from US and EU, but Japanese, Peruvian, Jamaican, Mexican, as well as Brazilian. We all know that Chinese are NOT capable of innovation.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#47

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

mistermann wrote: post #36
_6fmb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

I wonder how it would look if there was some magical way to view it on an ROI basis. Rather than focusing on R&D (science & technology presumably), I'd like to see Western countries start approaching ~"the humanities" (culture, society, happiness, etc) the same way we treat technology and industry. To me it seems fairly clear that there are distinct differences at the human satisfaction level between different countr…

According to the world happiness report [1] first 20 places are taken by "western" countries.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_Wo...

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#48

Post by detritus »

free_rms wrote: post #11
detritus wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU?

That's actually a decent answer, thanks. But they're an economic-only organization. The EU didn't bomb Libya, France and Britain did.

I'd wager that it's more of a Political Union (hence Brexit, to a degree?) and is still too young to have meddled much in an overall coherent military strategy. Time will tell.

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#49

Post by smeeth »

mistermann wrote: post #36
_6fmb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

I wonder how it would look if there was some magical way to view it on an ROI basis. Rather than focusing on R&D (science & technology presumably), I'd like to see Western countries start approaching ~"the humanities" (culture, society, happiness, etc) the same way we treat technology and industry. To me it seems fairly clear that there are distinct differences at the human satisfaction level between different countr…

You said the "humanities", but the examples of research you'd like were from the "social sciences". The humanities deals with fields like comparative literature, poetry, history, Russian language studies, etc. I am personally quite happy my tax dollars do not fund a lot of that, though I know not everyone feels this way.

Psychology and sociology are the fields that study the human happiness or social dynamics issues you referenced, and both funded by the NSF[0], so is it just that you wish they had more funding?

[0] https://www.nsf.gov/about/research_areas.jsp

Re: China again boosts R&D spending by more than 10%

#50

Post by sct202 »

mistermann wrote: post #36
_6fmb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually read the article we already outspend them on R&D. We spent 2.8% of GDP vs their 2.2% of GDP. They failed to meet their target of 2.5% of GDP despite steadily increasing.

I wonder how it would look if there was some magical way to view it on an ROI basis. Rather than focusing on R&D (science & technology presumably), I'd like to see Western countries start approaching ~"the humanities" (culture, society, happiness, etc) the same way we treat technology and industry. To me it seems fairly clear that there are distinct differences at the human satisfaction level between different countr…

China once had a large emphasis on humanities, the Imperial Exams used to be primarily tests and essays on classical books, philosophy, and poetry. Science, engineering, and math were not important. It did not turn out well for them.
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