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EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

reuters.com

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Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#41

Post by Answerawake »

baybal2 wrote: post #27
throwaway_12351 wrote: post #22

Does anyone have a good reference to competition vs compliance in the airline industry? US has a very competitive airline industry, and hence the incentives for regulations seems to be quite high. On one hand, since Pakistan has a small fleet (60 planes across 3 airlines per wikipedia), I would assume it's highly competitive and there isn't any room for error/bribing. It's also possible that it's very competitive so…

Heavily subsidised gulf carriers (many of which were founded by ex-PIA cadres...) have ate the lunch of the few Pakistani private carriers. PIA used to be nation's pride from its better days, so it's politically hard to rectify it when people with statist sentiment now run the establishment. Just like Pakrail, and PSM, PIA will be kept afloat, and safe away from privatisation. Khan's administration took down Sharif,…

Just out of curiosity. How has Kahn done in your opinion. I don't follow the news too much but I am curious. It just seems like with Pakistan it is impossible to get an objective unbiased opinion anywhere of how things are really going.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#42

Post by cosmodisk »

Svip wrote: post #12
robin_reala wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know already. A perennial topic of annoyance for US immigrants in Sweden is that their US licence is only valid for a year here, then they have to retake their test (unlike immigrants from the EU who get to convert theirs automatically).

Germany restricts US driving licences depending on issuing US state. Denmark is apparently far more willing to let it slide, and anyone with a US driving licence can get it converted to a Danish one with just a doctor's approval. Although, in Denmark, their US licence is only valid for a month. But you don't have to retake the test. I am frankly a bit puzzled by this decision.

My job is closely related to driver licencing. There are some really unusual agreements between countries. For instance, Spain has special agreements with some South American countries,so people from there can convert their license without taking driving exam. However,even though you end up having an EU licence, if you'd then move to the UK,they wouldn't convert it to British, because initial licence wasn't from the EU. We've had some really interesting cases because of this.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#43

Post by Darmody »

thepangolino wrote: post #36
_-___________-_ wrote: post #10

The article makes only a passing reference to the recent crash, but serious pilot error ("incompetence on an astonishing scale" might be a better phrase than "error") appears to be a major factor in it. http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0

The fact that nearly a third of Pakistani pilots are known to have a fake license might have something to do with it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nearly-a-third-of-pakis...

1 of every 3 pilots have a fake license in Pakistan. It's mind blowing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/06/26/30-of-...

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#44

Post by bencoder »

tialaramex wrote: post #20
dmurray wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's the TCAS. It sees in all directions. It's secondary radar so it only sees planes with a transponder, but that's usually all of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_collision_avoidance_sy...

> It's secondary radar so it only sees planes with a transponder, but that's usually all of them. In particular we're talking here about aeroplanes on an approach to a major airport (if they aren't on approach then by definition they aren't choosing between ILS and a visual clearance, and if it isn't a major airport why are we trying to bunch them up more?). All US major airports have a "Mode C veil" which means ther…

Since January 1st 2020 the requirement is for ADS-B out. So they will be reporting their GPS position also, now.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#45

Post by sfjailbird »

thepangolino wrote: post #36
_-___________-_ wrote: post #10

The article makes only a passing reference to the recent crash, but serious pilot error ("incompetence on an astonishing scale" might be a better phrase than "error") appears to be a major factor in it. http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0

The fact that nearly a third of Pakistani pilots are known to have a fake license might have something to do with it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nearly-a-third-of-pakis...

This was very overblown in the media. The issue was with re-certifications after changes to regulations in 2012, with most pilots (many with decades of experience) apparently preferring a bribe rather than cramming for months for the re-certification exam.

Still bad but it's not just random people off the street flying 777s.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#46

Post by goodcanadian »

square_usual wrote: post #18
_-___________-_ wrote: post #10

The article makes only a passing reference to the recent crash, but serious pilot error ("incompetence on an astonishing scale" might be a better phrase than "error") appears to be a major factor in it. http://avherald.com/h?article=4d7a6e9a&opt=0

This was awful to read. The control tower repeatedly warned them about their trajectory, and even advised them to discontinue the approach. I can't even imagine how awful it must've been to those aboard who placed their trust in the pilots.

In my opinion, ATC is also culpable (though much less so). They could have and should have ordered a go around, but instead, they re-cleared the airplane to land.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#47

Post by LoSboccacc »

sfjailbird wrote: post #45
thepangolino wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that nearly a third of Pakistani pilots are known to have a fake license might have something to do with it. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/nearly-a-third-of-pakis...

This was very overblown in the media. The issue was with re-certifications after changes to regulations in 2012, with most pilots (many with decades of experience) apparently preferring a bribe rather than cramming for months for the re-certification exam. Still bad but it's not just random people off the street flying 777s.

this assumes that their previous certifications were legit. now it might be the case that previously all certificate were given out properly and come 2012 corruption ramped 0 to 30% in a day, but I find that unlikely.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#48

Post by LudwigNagasena »

andybak wrote: post #40
godsplan1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure where is this coming from ... I reported the statement as it is .. the thing to worry about is this : The crew was overconfident and not focussed.

You can see how that might be seen as a dog whistle.

If you perceive something as a dog whistle, it doesn't mean others think so too or that author intended it that way. You have to be understanding. If something seems "off" to you, try to be more open-minded, we live in a multicultral society.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#49

Post by GordonS »

netsharc wrote: post #29
godsplan1 wrote: post #25

> On Jun 24th 2020: While introducing the preliminary report, Pakistan's Aviation Minister stated, that both flight crew and ATC failed to follow procedures, the pilots discussed Coronavirus and were not focussed on their piloting tasks, when ATC advised about altitude the crew replied they would manage it and again discussed Coronavirus. The crew was overconfident and not focussed. The captain's last three words wer…

I get the impression the last sentence is written (and you copy-pasted) with a bit of sneer towards their religion; in case it is, how many videos have we seen of Americans watching disaster unfolding and repeatedly saying "Ehmagerd, ehmagerd, ehmagerd"? Your account is 2 minutes older than this post... do we need to worry?

Honestly, I think you're looking for intent that wasn't there.

The OP posted a verbatim quote, and one that demonstrated the foolishness of the pilots' cockiness.

If the pilots had been westerners, they might have said 'oh god, oh god!' instead - if they had, I doubt you would have made your comment, so you might want to consider if your own biases/prejudices came into play here (I really don't mean that as an attack; I genuinely think it's good to be introspective on these things sometimes, and consider if our own internal biases are at work).

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#50

Post by GordonS »

vinay427 wrote: post #19
robin_reala wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know already. A perennial topic of annoyance for US immigrants in Sweden is that their US licence is only valid for a year here, then they have to retake their test (unlike immigrants from the EU who get to convert theirs automatically).

I think the OP was referring to Pakistan. More problematic in this respect are the UN accords that allow people from virtually any country to drive while visiting any other country, so you can have people from poorly licensed countries driving in a place where they're unfamiliar with the road system, language, etc. The EU/EEA reciprocity is due to EU regulations, not the assumption that every EU country has better dr…

I don't know what it's like in Pakistan, but I was watching something recently where a westerner took a driving test in India, and literally all he had to do was reverse about 5 metres. All this on camera, and the driving tester didn't bat an eyelid, like this was totally OK.

Having travelled a fair bit in India, I've seen accidents happen in front of me, I've seen the aftermath of many more, and I've seen ienumerable near misses - after seeing the driving test, it explained a lot!

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