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HFT in My Backyard (2014)

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Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#41
post #35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The markets need aggressive orders as well as passive orders. There is nothing inherently bad about liquidity taking. It is generally just as beneficial as liquidity providing. If anything, the misuse of passive orders is probably more common than the misuse of aggressive orders because passive orders can be used to influence a market without trading. Even the taking of liquidity in the anticipation of a price move i…

The aggressive liquidity taking strategies cause wider spreads and shallower books as liquidity providers are forced to quote wider and smaller to avoid those adversely selected orders. This essentially is a small tax (or rent) collected from all other market participants.

That is a common viewpoint, but one I strongly disagree with. I exclude illegal disruptive orders, since those are addressed by market reg disciplinary action. An aggressing order that provides new information to the market is not harmful. On the contrary, it makes the market more efficient by definition. If a market maker has to widen their spreads or lighten their liquidity, it is a sign that they are doing a worse job than someone else of determining market price (again, barring illegal activity). If a market maker is doing a good job, then they should be thrilled to have anyone take their passive orders all day long, because it will result in greater profit for the market maker.

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#42
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thinking of the stock market as merely "a way to provide retirement plans" is wrong. It costs money to serve meals, put people in housing and invent technologies. Where does a lot of that money come from? Our financial system (of which the stock market is a key component). A better functioning financial system enables progress in lots of other industries.

You can have a financial system without a stock market. It would be constituted with public banks or various kinds of credit unions. The reason I cited retirement plans is that is the most sympathetic argument I could think of for caring about the stock market going up. Only ~20% of Americans own stocks, so it going up basically just enriches 1/5th of the population at the expense of the rest.

Soviet Union existed, and literally failed to put some bread on the table

https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/amp/When-Bor...

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#43
post #5
post #3

This blog actually got me into HFT. It's a fascinating industry with a lot of fun bleeding edge tech challenges.

I could be totally wrong, and perhaps I should read that blog, but working in HFT doesn't sound very rewarding except perhaps in a pure financial sense. It seems to me that the field contributes nothing to society, and has only negative externalities like raising barriers of entry to markets and using insane amount of resources.

[deleted]

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#44
post #3

This blog actually got me into HFT. It's a fascinating industry with a lot of fun bleeding edge tech challenges.

What has your journey looked like since then? What other note-worthy resources/articles/blogs/books have you come across since then? TIA

You might find the Meanderful blog informative.

https://meanderful.blogspot.com/

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#46
> What’s more, if there is only one tree (or one leaf) between two points/dishes, the network is dead. Paths need to be free of obstacles.

Question: Are there typically any laws against blocking line-of-sight like this as long as you stay on your own land? Such as sending up a hot air balloon "sign" that just happens to be in the way of the expensive setup?

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#47
post #14
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HFT has significantly lowered trading costs for all investors. Here's a statement from the CEO of Vanguard espousing this position: https://www.cnbc.com/2014/04/25/vanguard-chief-defends-high-... Because of automation, the amount of resources used for trading have actually decreased. Computers are a lot cheaper that the many many humans who used to be involved in the process.

I remember the days in the early 80's when Merrill Lynch would charge $70 for a trade. That's the equivalent to $190 today. And people paid it because the low-cost firms like Schwab weren't well-known and people thought "If they're that cheap, they can't be any good."

You can thank HFT for the ubiquitous free trades that most brokers now provide.

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#48
post #39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The aggressive liquidity taking strategies cause wider spreads and shallower books as liquidity providers are forced to quote wider and smaller to avoid those adversely selected orders. This essentially is a small tax (or rent) collected from all other market participants.

>The aggressive liquidity taking strategies cause wider spreads and shallower books as liquidity providers are forced to quote wider and smaller to avoid those adversely selected orders Is there evidence for this?

I think that this is common knowledge in market microstructure, but I've read about this specific relationship between market makers and adverse selection in the book, "Trades, Quotes and Prices".

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#49
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have a financial system without a stock market. It would be constituted with public banks or various kinds of credit unions. The reason I cited retirement plans is that is the most sympathetic argument I could think of for caring about the stock market going up. Only ~20% of Americans own stocks, so it going up basically just enriches 1/5th of the population at the expense of the rest.

Soviet Union existed, and literally failed to put some bread on the table https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/bayarea/news/amp/When-Bor...

It failed due to both internal and external problems. The proximal cause of death was running out of foreign currency.

Did you notice the breadlines in the US earlier this year?

Re: HFT in My Backyard (2014)

#50
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could be totally wrong, and perhaps I should read that blog, but working in HFT doesn't sound very rewarding except perhaps in a pure financial sense. It seems to me that the field contributes nothing to society, and has only negative externalities like raising barriers of entry to markets and using insane amount of resources.

> It seems to me that the field contributes nothing to society, and has only negative externalities like raising barriers of entry to markets and using insane amount of resources. I thought the same way for a long time. HFT helps make markets more liquid and (somewhat) may aid price discovery. Now, assuming you buy that, the standard response is “sure, but how does pouring all these resources into shaving picoseconds…

But faster price discovery doesn't actually do anything. Outside of other HFT firms, efficient pricing only matters for large events that happen on a macro timescale - share issuance, buybacks, dividends, etc.

Unless one of those macro events occurs, knowing whether a stock is worth $10 or $11 doesn't actually matter - there's no efficiency gained or resources allocated based on that difference.

Resources aren't allocated on a nanosecond timeframe, no matter how fast your trades are. Actual resource allocation happens on a weeks to months timeframe.

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