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George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

bbc.co.uk

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Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#41

Post by goostavos »

gotoeleven wrote: post #35
goostavos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a frequent reader of thedonald.win, for some people, yes... yes, it was. I honestly don't know how you could mentally wiggle yourself into thinking that 8:45 seconds of someone being on your neck could have an alternative cause of death. Hell, but let's say it was something else. Let's say it was actually a heart attack that ultimately did him in. Does that matter? Surely, we can point towards the stress of having…

I'm puzzled by this though, isn't the knee on the neck thing a standard technique used by cops all the time? Apparently people don't usually die from it or this would happen all the time, right? Was the cop somehow doing it wrong?

I'm not a cop. I don't know how they're trained.

I think the egregiousness comes not from the move itself, but the duration a excessive use given the person was already subdued, in hand cuffs, on the ground, and not resisting.

I don't think anyone would complain about a knee on the neck of someone actively resisting arrest while they were getting the situation under control.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#42

Post by dogma1138 »

gotoeleven wrote: post #35
goostavos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a frequent reader of thedonald.win, for some people, yes... yes, it was. I honestly don't know how you could mentally wiggle yourself into thinking that 8:45 seconds of someone being on your neck could have an alternative cause of death. Hell, but let's say it was something else. Let's say it was actually a heart attack that ultimately did him in. Does that matter? Surely, we can point towards the stress of having…

I'm puzzled by this though, isn't the knee on the neck thing a standard technique used by cops all the time? Apparently people don't usually die from it or this would happen all the time, right? Was the cop somehow doing it wrong?

It’s a standard submission technique however you aren’t supposed to put your weight on the neck it’s more to restrict movement of the shoulders and the head the weight should be on the upper spine between the shoulder blades with the knee extended to the top of the neck, if you press on the side of the neck if it’s rotated or put your weight onto the neck itself you can kill the person.

Alternatively another technique locks the neck between the foot and the knee and again you aren’t supposed to put your weight on the neck unless you want to kill the person.

Untrained cop on a power trip using improper technique to subdue a person for a fucking forever and a half is a recipe for disaster.

BTW I would bet on most cops not knowing how to perform this properly the only reason you usually don’t have casualties and fatalities is due to the fact that they only hold the suspect in submission for a few seconds until they are cuffed or until their partner arrives to hold them down not like 10 min or what ever that it was.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#43

Post by bE9a3S5So8igd3 »

snazz wrote: post #21
Jackim wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See here: https://www.mystateline.com/news/national/medical-examiner-n... > The medical examiner said Floyd had underlying health conditions, including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease. > “The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by the police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death,” the medical examiner reported.

How are they even allowed to say "any potential intoxicants" when they haven't tested for intoxicants? Did they do a test? That seems like a very powerful and prone-to-misuse political tool.

You should watch the full length video of the fraud bust. It was very clear from the video that the police on the scene seemed to think he was under influence of drugs. They asked repeatedly what he "was on." They commented to bystanders, "this is why you don't do drugs, kids."

They tried to get him into police car for 10min and he resisted, and was saying that he couldn't breathe even prior to the knee+neck incident.

Combine this anecdotal information with a long rap sheet involving felony drug charges ( https://i.redd.it/2sc99kysho151.jpg ) and you have a pretty decent rough estimate that he was on drugs at the time. I'd also like to see official toxicology reports though.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#45

Post by yoavm »

currymj wrote: post #40
yoavm wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry if it's a stupid question, but I'm not American and not a native English speaker. What do you mean when you say "Abolish the police"? You think there shouldn't be police at all? Or that it needs a reform? Do you disagree with the idea of having laws? I'm genuinely asking because I'm seeing this phrase more and more now and I'm not sure what people actually mean when they say that.

the argument is that there shouldn't be police forces as we know them today -- that the whole issue of crime and punishment should be handled completely differently, with communities organizing themselves to prevent malicious activity. typically this argument goes along with the idea of abolishing prisons as well, and ending incarceration as punishment for crimes. it's not a completely ridiculous idea -- there have b…

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation. What societies do you have in mind that had a legal system but no formal policing force? Would be interesting to learn more about it. I remember the concept of police appears even in the bible, so I assumed it was pretty much always there.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#46

Post by atomi »

bE9a3S5So8igd3 wrote: post #43
snazz wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are they even allowed to say "any potential intoxicants" when they haven't tested for intoxicants? Did they do a test? That seems like a very powerful and prone-to-misuse political tool.

You should watch the full length video of the fraud bust. It was very clear from the video that the police on the scene seemed to think he was under influence of drugs. They asked repeatedly what he "was on." They commented to bystanders, "this is why you don't do drugs, kids." They tried to get him into police car for 10min and he resisted, and was saying that he couldn't breathe even prior to the knee+neck incident…

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm thinking these protests aren't just about one guy.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#47

Post by currymj »

yoavm wrote: post #45
currymj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the argument is that there shouldn't be police forces as we know them today -- that the whole issue of crime and punishment should be handled completely differently, with communities organizing themselves to prevent malicious activity. typically this argument goes along with the idea of abolishing prisons as well, and ending incarceration as punishment for crimes. it's not a completely ridiculous idea -- there have b…

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation. What societies do you have in mind that had a legal system but no formal policing force? Would be interesting to learn more about it. I remember the concept of police appears even in the bible, so I assumed it was pretty much always there.

One example is England up until the 19th century, which had a well-established court system but no formal police departments, just unpaid constables, local militias, etc. I think it was probably similar in many other parts of Europe. I'm not an expert on the history by any means, though.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#48

Post by rwbhn »

wnevets wrote: post #28
jedimastert wrote: post #2

Wait, was that in question?

There are people (i.e A Sheriff's deputy) claiming [0] you can't choke someone to death with a knee to the neck. I'm not sure if the goal is claim Floyd didn't die, died of something else or they're just trying to spread disinformation https://www.magnoliastatelive.com/2020/05/29/mississippi-she...

Per the current contents of that link, he is now a _former_ deputy.

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#49

Post by jddj »

gotoeleven wrote: post #39
cstross wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the GDR (East Germany) during Stalin's period running the Communist bloc, prior to about 1953 they used to execute dissidents using a guillotine in the Stasi basement. The death certificates stated the cause of death as "low blood pressure". They knew it was wrong, they didn't want to leave any documentary evidence: this is the same bullshit, just closer to home.

So you're saying the most likely interpretation of the situation is that the minneapolis county medical examiner is like a communist secret police executioner?

That's an uncharitable read of that comment

Re: George Floyd died of asphyxia, private autopsy finds

#50

Post by TMWNN »

jddj wrote: post #49
gotoeleven wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying the most likely interpretation of the situation is that the minneapolis county medical examiner is like a communist secret police executioner?

That's an uncharitable read of that comment

Is that any more uncharitable than cstross's comparison with East Germany?
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