Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#41

Post by pubstik »

seph-reed wrote: post #28
perfunctory wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So how do we proceed from here? Like we always do when our leaders fail us. Organise and rebel.

Seriously, who do we hit first, and how? How about big pharma and exclusively using water-boarding so nobody gets killed? Is that too far? What is too far? What is an is not acceptable in terms of punishment for extreme destruction of the earth and general oppression/enslavement of humanity? Are we really going to give them a slap on the wrist while torturing pot dealers?

I think torture is always wrong and calling for it is always wrong. Your comment, as responded to, has no place here and is hateful and vile, no matter how justified and entitled to violence you feel you are. Go soak your head.

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#42

Post by cultus »

yters wrote: post #38
cultus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A social collapse would coincide with an economic collapse and lower emissions. Honestly, speaking as a former climate change-adjacent geophysicist, I'd take it. It is becoming fairly clear we will have revolutions. At some point, things will deteriorate to the point it will happen. Normalcy bias is a hell of a drug, and we are all sniffing it really hard. The ruling class is unwilling and unable to solve this or any…

Why do you prefer that outcome? Social and economic collapse could cost millions of lives, and mostly among the poorest parts of the world.

We're headed towards a collapse either way, with many, many millions dying. Very possibly billions over the course of this century. Either it's a major society upheaval leading towards positive change, or it's just general societal breakdown as civilization as we know it becomes impossible. Our current political-economic system is simply not up to the challenge, so not having upheaval is not an option.

A comparatively mild collapse sooner is better than later. This really is an existential threat like we have never experienced.

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#43

Post by pasquinelli »

yters wrote: post #40
perfunctory wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rebellions are sometimes the only recipe for success. Think about Women's suffrage movement, civil rights movement, anti war movements etc.

I agree civil movements and bloodless revolutions through the political process are good. Violent overthrows are bad, AFAIK almost always resulting in a much worse regime than the one being overthrown. The USA's founding is a fortunate divergence from the norm. More recently, look at the Bolshevik revolution, resulting in over 100 million dead.

Yeah, how many are dead from the american revolution? And how many were lifted out of poverty by each revolution? Since you can apparently trace all of history following a revolution to that revolution, how do you add up these numbers? While we're at it, how many deaths do you pin on the british empire and the russian empire?

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#44

Post by eloff »

throwaway294 wrote: post #39
eloff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could come up with 300 given enough time. But it's not my job to convince people who are unable to evaluate evidence rationally. You can't cherry pick three things out of three hundred. All your objections are strawmen - nobody claims a picture of a melting glacier is evidence of climate change. Now the satelite data showing Greenland and Antarctica losing ice at an unprecedented rate is good evidence. I want to sa…

You attacked me, your up and down. A local community college, when the epidemic is over, should be able to give you a course in remedial reading sufficient for you to read and understand my posts I referenced. For your 300 pieces of evidence, I asked for only three. So, you were unable to give even three and, instead, attacked my "rationality". Rationality? I hold a Ph.D. in applied math from a world class research u…

So much for academia. I'm a college drop out, but I've still got you beat on the subject of rationality.

I would like to point out I'm not the one hiding behind a throwaway. Maybe you are just trolling.

You could literally read on the subject for months. There's an abundance of evidence and it's not hidden.

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=resources+for+climate+change+deniers

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#45

Post by avmich »

throwaway294 wrote: post #39
eloff wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could come up with 300 given enough time. But it's not my job to convince people who are unable to evaluate evidence rationally. You can't cherry pick three things out of three hundred. All your objections are strawmen - nobody claims a picture of a melting glacier is evidence of climate change. Now the satelite data showing Greenland and Antarctica losing ice at an unprecedented rate is good evidence. I want to sa…

You attacked me, your up and down. A local community college, when the epidemic is over, should be able to give you a course in remedial reading sufficient for you to read and understand my posts I referenced. For your 300 pieces of evidence, I asked for only three. So, you were unable to give even three and, instead, attacked my "rationality". Rationality? I hold a Ph.D. in applied math from a world class research u…

So, how do you explain scientific consensus on climate crisis?

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#46

Post by throwaway294 »

avmich wrote: post #45
throwaway294 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You attacked me, your up and down. A local community college, when the epidemic is over, should be able to give you a course in remedial reading sufficient for you to read and understand my posts I referenced. For your 300 pieces of evidence, I asked for only three. So, you were unable to give even three and, instead, attacked my "rationality". Rationality? I hold a Ph.D. in applied math from a world class research u…

So, how do you explain scientific consensus on climate crisis?

MIT Professor R. Lindzen explains the consensus in

"The Great Global Warming Swindle"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52Mx0_8YEtg

The explanation is in one word -- money, as in two words, too much money.

In addition, look at the arguments. Since I hold a good STEM field Ph.D., I'm supposed to do that.

For more, I gave my explanations in the two URLs to YC I mentioned above.

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#47

Post by mellow2020 »

yters wrote: post #37
mellow2020 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standing up is the opposite of collapse. Failure to stand up is required for the collapse to go ahead.

Why do you think rebellion is synonymous with standing up?

It's not synonymous with it, it does entail it. Why would you think resistance against sleepwalking into the collapse of human civilization as something deserving of such a title, which would entail incredible suffering, is synonymous with "society collapsing"?

To quote the White Rose: "If a person cannot even summon the strength to demand his rights, then there is nothing left for him but destruction." If someone person equates that with random fighting and murder that says nothing about resistance as such, it's very clearly attacking the weakest form of the argument.

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#48

Post by yters »

cultus wrote: post #42
yters wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you prefer that outcome? Social and economic collapse could cost millions of lives, and mostly among the poorest parts of the world.

We're headed towards a collapse either way, with many, many millions dying. Very possibly billions over the course of this century. Either it's a major society upheaval leading towards positive change, or it's just general societal breakdown as civilization as we know it becomes impossible. Our current political-economic system is simply not up to the challenge, so not having upheaval is not an option. A comparativel…

Have you considered alternative scenarios?

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#49

Post by nate_meurer »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #29
hyperman1 wrote: post #4

These articles scare me. Another one with exactly the same message: Things are worse than we thought, it was already bad, we are not coming close to doing enough to save us, there isn't even much of a plan. And then I see most of the west handling covid-19 just like we handle everything: No clear direction, minimal effort, leaders asleep at the wheel, politicians trying to get the better of each other, rich people ge…

I know how crappy it feels to be fearful of a future that you feel helpless to prevent. Those feelings gnaw at you day in and day out and cast a pall over everything to do and experience. I also know the future comes and the present becomes history with or without our active participation. We can no more stop it than stop an ocean wave from cresting on the shore. All we can do is make the choices we can make and take…

Thanks for this Chuck.

Re: Wildlife collapse from climate change is predicted to hit suddenly and sooner

#50

Post by cultus »

yters wrote: post #48
cultus wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're headed towards a collapse either way, with many, many millions dying. Very possibly billions over the course of this century. Either it's a major society upheaval leading towards positive change, or it's just general societal breakdown as civilization as we know it becomes impossible. Our current political-economic system is simply not up to the challenge, so not having upheaval is not an option. A comparativel…

Have you considered alternative scenarios?

Yes. This is something I think about quite a bit, since I did used to work on climate-change related geophysics. If we started combating climate change decades ago, we wouldn't need such a drastic change. Realistically, no real change will happen for another decade, but our backs are already up against a wall.

Having waited so long, the changes required are unbelievably radical and painful, in that our entire way of life must change. AOC and Bernie's Green New Deal is woefully inadequate, and that's considered extreme. I can't see that happening when we can't even figure out how to make paper face masks.

Post reply on HN